Wake up and smell our demise (health care, immigrants, San Francisco, Mexican)

[saganista]

Originally Posted by chele123

Can you say history repeats itself? That we have studied and learned from history, and don't want it to repeat itself? We invaded this country, and claimed it for our own. The natives lost their land, lost their culture, and lost their lives. Are you suggesting we should just sit here and allow that to happen to us? Us, as in U.S.

You don't have a choice. Get over the simpering John Wayne flag-waver act. Significant parts of that U.S. of yours will be majority Hispanic within fifty years. You can either be a jerk, or start thinking about how that can work out the best for all of us.

[saganista]

Originally Posted by eaglecall

Did you know that in mother nature the strongest better adapted specimen is the one that survives? That one who successfully hunt and successfully prevent be hunted. We hunted our land. And since we have the knowledge and strength, will not survive from those trying to hunt us.

Actually, we're one of the species that failed as fighters. We aren't strong or fast, and don't have vicious weapons built into any part of our bodies. We have survived so far by being smart. Some of the posts that I see in this sub-forum suggest that we may be losing that evolutionary advantage.

Originally Posted by eaglecall

Any doubt, just ask The Taliban. They messed with the wrong specie. Just like cheap people south of the border is doing.

Ah, another graduate of the Ann Coulter 'Things are going swimmingly in Afghanistan' School of Current Events. There's a sheepskin you don't want on your wall...

[chele123]

Originally Posted by saganista

You don't have a choice. Get over the simpering John Wayne flag-waver act. Significant parts of that U.S. of yours will be majority Hispanic within fifty years. You can either be a jerk, or start thinking about how that can work out the best for all of us.

What's best for which "All of us"? Best for the United States and Americans? Or what is best for Mexico and it's citizens that the Mexican government is all to happy to ship north for the United States to take care of?

[saganista]

Originally Posted by chele123

What's best for which "All of us"? Best for the United States and Americans? Or what is best for Mexico and it's citizens that the Mexican government is all to happy to ship north for the United States to take care of?

Trouble with the meaning of 'all'??? Immigrants are here not because of the government of Mexico, but because of the people of the United States. We demand that they come. But we don't set up systems that can process them fast enough to meet that demand. So the rest come illegally, despite the considerable perils and disadvantages associated with that. You want to stop illegal immigration? Make it easier and cheaper to come here legally than illegally. That is the only thing that will work. Your silly walls, and jails, and patrols, and round-ups, and various other forms of human brutalization are not going to accomplish a single thing. They never have. You are currently trying to swim upstream against a mighty torrent. There is only one possible outcome...you will be swept away...

[chele123]

Originally Posted by saganista

Trouble with the meaning of 'all'??? Immigrants are here not because of the government of Mexico, but because of the people of the United States. We demand that they come. But we don't set up systems that can process them fast enough to meet that demand. So the rest come illegally, despite the considerable perils and disadvantages associated with that. You want to stop illegal immigration? Make it easier and cheaper to come here legally than illegally. That is the only thing that will work. Your silly walls, and jails, and patrols, and round-ups, and various other forms of human brutalization are not going to accomplish a single thing. They never have. You are currently trying to swim upstream against a mighty torrent. There is only one possible outcome...you will be swept away...

IF we needed more unskilled, uneducated poor people, I guess we would make it easier for them to come here. The fact is, we do not need them. There is no argument that justifies condoning breaking the law for any reason, and most certainly no argument that justifies rewarding criminals for breaking the law. If we need unskilled, uneducated criminals to work in the United States we have plenty of them in our prisons; no need to import more.
As for our "silly walls, and jails, and patrols, and round-ups, and various other forms of human brutalization are not going to accomplish a single thing. " that hasn't really been proven, has it? The whole problem is that our laws have not been enforced. We won't know if enforcing the laws will work or not until we actully enforce them.

[citigirl]

[quote=saganista;864007]Trouble with the meaning of 'all'??? Immigrants are here not because of the government of Mexico, but because of the people of the United States. We demand that they come. But we don't set up systems that can process them fast enough to meet that demand. So the rest come illegally, despite the considerable perils and disadvantages associated with that. You want to stop illegal immigration? Make it easier and cheaper to come here legally than illegally. That is the only thing that will work. Your silly walls, and jails, and patrols, and round-ups, and various other forms of human brutalization are not going to accomplish a single thing. They never have. You are currently trying to swim upstream against a mighty torrent. There is only one possible outcome...you will be swept away...[/QUOTE]

Gee what will they do then? They have an older country than us and have still not caught up with America. Most parts of Mexico and South America are like a third would country.

[M TYPE X]

"you will be swept away"

Khrushchev's back!

Regardless of Mexican government hostility (the "cooperation" be them is less than honest) as well as the lingering, shameful, and painful (for everyone concerned) problems exposed in the 1960s, this country has plenty of opportunity yet to chart its own course and be the country that it says it is.

The problem aren't the Aztlan-apologist trolls or activists.
He have at least one obtuse poster on this board from California who appears to be an upper middle class type guy that believes his illegal migrant nanny is great and trusts her with all the knives in the kitchen. No problems here! You can see him driving to work in Downtown City in his Lexus ... the windows all rolled up, so he can somewhat honestly say he doesn't see the Black ghetto. The rolled up windows testify otherwise.

I'll be real honest here: it's easy to be an upper middle class type person that reads the Wall Street Journal everyday, ignorant of facts ... until something happens. That something matters from person to person, as some people don't cross the threshold until the **** hits the fan personally. Foreign policy is irrelevant; the barbarians have to be ramming down the front door.

IF we could only enforce the laws, we wouldn't have these problems. But to do so, we would need a thoughtful national consensus, something that has been elusive since the 1960s, as the politicians hide behind words in the newspaper or sound bites on the TV.

Back to my Khrushchev point: foreign leaders (France, Russia, China as well as the 'lesser' terrors such as Venezuela) love to cast stones at glass houses from glass houses. Russia has major racial cleavages with Asians and Muslims, and China is a homogeneous state that enforces racial priorities by overt repression, even in Tibet.

I've thrown in conservative and liberal concerns in this post. If we can agree that nobody should be parading a tattered upside-down flag in the street, we have a start. If we can't agree on even that, then we "will be swept away" by the La Raza types that will be astonished to see we left our front doors open, with the plasma TVs in plain sight!
[I love metaphors.]

[chele123]

Originally Posted by saganista

Keep swimming.


Amnesty removes that excuse. Then what will you hide behind?


Excellent plan. Of course, there are only a little more than 2 million of them, not 12 million, and probably a fourth of those really are people who should not be allowed out on the streets. But you'd rather have a psychotic killer come mow your lawn than a Mexican, I guess.


Over and over again. See 'War on Drugs' for a recent and typically spectacularly failed example.


The whole problem is that the laws are worse than outdated and have lost all connection to what our economic and demographic realities are. No laws of such a type are respected in any society. Oral sex between consenting heterosexual spouses in the privacy of their own home is a felony in my state. Care to guess how much respect that law gets???

So if it's against the law to have oral sex in your state, but you are having oral sex, are you flaunting your oral sex in front everyone? Are you joining forces with other felons and demanding the right to have oral sex? Are you suggesting that just because so many others are having oral sex, and you need oral sex, that you should be granted amnesty? Once given amnesty for having oral sex, will you invite/encourage others to have oral sex too? Have your found oral sex supporters to fund your quest to continue your felonious activities on the premise that it is your right to have oral sex? Have you started groups to harrass/intimidate others into condoing your felonious behavior?

I don't believe our laws are out of date, or out of touch. I don't believe all the hype that illegal aliens are needed. There have been 7 amnestys granted since 1986, and that hasn't solved any problems, so why should we grant yet another amnesty? Why do you insist that the United States is responsible for taking care of Mexian nationals? Wouldn't it be simpler to put pressure on Mexico to take care of their own, instead of expecting us to do it for them?

[nooneknowsmyname]

Originally Posted by saganista

You don't have a choice. Get over the simpering John Wayne flag-waver act. Significant parts of that U.S. of yours will be majority Hispanic within fifty years. You can either be a jerk, or start thinking about how that can work out the best for all of us.

I agree. The times they are a changing. The US is changing rapidly from a predominantly white country to one that will be populated largely by people of color. We can either figure out how to deal with the change and work together to make things work out for all of us or continue complaining about the changes that are currently underway.

[fastfilm]

Originally Posted by saganista

Your silly walls, and jails, and patrols, and round-ups, and various other forms of human brutalization are not going to accomplish a single thing. They never have. You are currently trying to swim upstream against a mighty torrent. There is only one possible outcome...you will be swept away...

So now it's "you" versus "us?" You don't consider yourself American? Can it be true that those ascribing to this line of thought put La Raza uber alles? That they want the entirety of American society, with its origin from all parts of the globe, not just "yours" south of the border, to be eradicated so that this country more resembles their classic third world paradigm, or the racial mandates of National Socialism?

I want this country to work its best so that every American, from nooneknowsmy name to RedNC can function their own best in, well, the pursuit of happiness, based upon our shared American ideals. Mean-spirited illegals and their apologists consistantly rationalize the illegals' own criminal actions. This remains self-serving solipsism, and the polar opposite of "E Pluribus Unum."