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Old 05-15-2010, 09:53 PM
 
Location: Pa
19,928 posts, read 10,987,924 times
Reputation: 6183
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boompa View Post
That is NOT TRUE, you are required to present proof of Citizenship.
Is this a bad thing?
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Old 05-15-2010, 10:22 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,157 posts, read 25,991,605 times
Reputation: 3654
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boompa View Post
That is NOT TRUE, you are required to present proof of Citizenship.
Here a valid Az driver's license will suffice
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Old 05-15-2010, 10:54 PM
 
Location: central Oregon
1,714 posts, read 1,018,581 times
Reputation: 1921
Quote:
Originally Posted by iamseriouslypissedoff View Post
NOT worth repeating!
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Old 05-15-2010, 10:56 PM
 
3 posts, read 1,260 times
Reputation: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
I suggest you go back to Turkey since you think so little of this country and its right to enforce the law.
I suggest you keep your opinions to yourself regarding where I spend my time., or at least act like you possess the ability to understand something that you read.

What gave you the idea that I think "little" of this country? I love this country as much as anyone can. I know you were born here and you think that fact gives you the privilege of loving this country. Well, I had to struggle for years, win a lawsuit, get beaten up a few times and even get tortured for stating my true opinion and my love for this country. So cut me some slack here, I know I am a lower being than you since I am not white but come on...

And you know what, if YOU could go to a third world country and had to live there even for a short while, you would stop acting like a spoilt child and complaining about everything under the sun.

Seriously, I wish racism was something you could just remove from someone. Here I am telling you that you have a beautiful thing in your hands, and some politician and bureaucrats are scaring you into handing it over to them. And you get defensive? Now, why the hell would you do that?

Besides, to those of you talking about the "imaginary database". Wake up, THERE IS NO SUCH THING. The police can not determine my legal status, or for some reason just will not. I know people who got arrested and spent MONTHS in detention just because they did not have their IDs with them and got arrested with the suspicion of being here illegally. They were not issued bond, and months went by before they could see a judge who immediately released them. So what, I am supposed to be ok with spending months in detention?

Something is NOT working here, and you are blinded by either racism or patriotism so bad that you are just unable to see it.

Oh by the way, I am one of the people that the United States would like to keep. I graduated from the top engineering school in the country with honors, and am working on my masters in one of the best graduate schools in the country, and have about 6 standing job offers.

So do not mistake me for one of those who roll over the border into the United States and comment as if you are talking to one of them.
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Old 05-16-2010, 05:30 AM
 
438 posts, read 283,045 times
Reputation: 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
Is this a bad thing?
Well ofcourse it is. Why should American citizens have to prove they are here legally.
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Old 05-16-2010, 08:36 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,157 posts, read 25,991,605 times
Reputation: 3654
Quote:
Originally Posted by iamseriouslypissedoff View Post
To me, the most significant problem with the new law in Arizona is how it made two things obvious: People are extremely ignorant about the illegal immigrant problem and they are extremely ungrateful for living in a great country.

First of all, these people have been your neighbors, you gave jobs to some of these people, you used the services of some of them in one way or another, maybe you even befriended some of these people. How little the people in general know about them is just beyond me. Someone on this forum noted: "they refuse to become citizens and pay taxes". I do not mean to be rude, but I laughed when I read this. Most people think these people are invading the US and they are on a mission to ruin this country. Everyone is making claims about the "cost" these people bring on the American public - without any knowledge of finance whatsoever. Both online and in real life, this problem turned into one of those scary tales people tell each other. About a week ago, a friend of mine here told me "illegal mexicans send home $20 billion every year". As if this stat was not funny enough, yesterday I heard someone say "those illegal mexicans send home $65 billion a year". Now come on, do I even need to explain what bothers me about this situation? Most of these people would die for a chance to become American citizens and pay taxes. Hell, tell them they have to pay two times the taxes they would normally pay, they will jump on the offer! $20 billion may sound like a small number to most people here, but if someone gave that kind of money to Mexico, not every year either, just once... They would be richer than most of us here are. So come on, do not beat the problem with a stick and tell each other how scary it is. Read, research, learn and criticize. This is how you understand stuff, not by buying everything the government tells you. (Ever read Lord of the Flies? Most of you sound like the "mean kids" there!)

Right now, according to the new law in Arizona, I can be deported; did you know that? Do you know why? Because I came to Arizona on vacation, to spend time with my girlfriend who is studying here. I had a drivers license but I somehow should have misplaced it and now I do not have any form of ID on me. I am a student as well; paying taxes aside, I spend more than $70k a year on school and living expenses. So please cut that "freebies" crap with me. I abided every law there is regarding immigration, but now I am stuck in Arizona. Afraid to even leave the house, why? I can not even imagine the terror most of these people who are actually illegal aliens are feeling now!

Some of you could say that I am required to carry my immigration documents at all times, per federal immigration laws. I say "yeah right". There is a 2"x2" piece of paper called I94, which has your entry stamp on it. All that there is to this tiny piece of paper is that! A friend of mine once lost hers, and had to get a new one. Do you know how much the fees cost? More than $700. And the process takes about 4 months, during which you can not convince ANY federal agent that you are in the country legally.


Let me tell you something that most of you have no idea about, about the second part of what bothers me the most about this new law. You have no idea about the kind of place these people are coming from. I am from Turkey, and I really can not understand how anyone can support such a law in their country! You have no idea how these things work, that is why you are supportive of this law! You are lucky that you have a fourth amendment protecting your rights. By supporting this law, you are giving up some of those rights. You have no idea how easy it is to lose your rights to the government - because you have not experienced it yet. There is no government in the world that does not want more power over its citizens, and less privacy to its citizens, including the US. Today you say you are OK with being stopped at a checkpoint where you have to present your ID. Try refusing to answer the question "Are you an American citizen?" in one of those checkpoints. This is your right; but try to exercise that right and see what happens. This is the government taking back your rights - the rights your ancestors fought and died for. These are the rights that make America bigger than all the others. This is what makes America "land of the free". I know, because I am coming from a country where all this have been happening for decades, and I am not blinded by racism to the point where I fail to see that I am cutting my own leg to get rid of a sock.

There are illegal immigrants in prisons, there are illegal immigrant getting benefits from the government. (Blame them all you want. Just do not put all the blame on them, ASK YOUR POLITICIANS HOW THESE PEOPLE EARNED THOSE BENEFITS.) Your government knows where these people are. If your government wanted to actually solve the problem, and start from somewhere, they would be deporting these people now. They would concentrate their efforts to doing what they can, and start to actually solve this problem. Even if they started today, and no other illegal immigrants went to jail or started getting benefits from today on, IT WOULD TAKE YEARS to deport them all. And it would actually work towards a solution of the problem. Why, instead, do they want to stop you in the middle of a highway and have a dog sniff your car? Why do they want the authority to stop you while you are walking and ask you questions - for no reason? THEY ARE BEING LAZY. This is why. Instead of actually working and doing something to solve the problem, they are setting up checkpoints which cost a fortune to operate, and trying to catch a few fish! Funny how people support the government doing this. They refuse to approach the problem in a way they can solve it, they refuse to actually do what they are getting paid to do, instead they want to throw away your tax money into something that is: 1. Not efficient, 2. Useless, 3. A waste of money, 4. Costing you your rights.

Come on people, have you ever asked yourself why the "border" is 100 miles into the US soil than where it used to be? What they want to do falls just a little short of martial law; I have seen three coups, I would know. Somebody is using this illegal immigration problem for either one of a few possible reasons: They get funded better when the public is led to believe the problem is bigger than it really is. They are given more authority when the public is led to believe the problem is bigger than it really is. They actually do not have to deal with the real problems when the public is led to believe the problem is bigger than it really is. Maybe all of these reasons, who knows.

And right now, you are all for it! You are willing to trade your freedom for your security... You are scared into handing the government your rights; so much that you applaud when the government takes your rights away from you. I know most of you are going to think what is happening is no way as bad as I say it is. Well, it always starts from somewhere. You may be thinking "once we get rid of these illegal immigrants, the government will not use checkpoints because they will not need 'em!" I say "Yeah, right". Believe me, by then you all will have gotten used to them, and THE GOVERNMENT WILL KEEP THEM, they will just call them "routine checks". They will be a part of your lives and who knows; you will probably be stripped of the rights you can exercise to protest the existence of those checkpoints by then. I have seen all this happen, I would know.

Come on people, I expected a lot more from you!
That is YOUR responsibility to keep your paperwork in order. Reading between the lines; you sound like an illegal alien, and I strongly suggest you leave the USA on your volition before ICE picks you up and face a 3-10 ban on reentry into the USA.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iamseriouslypissedoff View Post
I suggest you keep your opinions to yourself regarding where I spend my time., or at least act like you possess the ability to understand something that you read.

What gave you the idea that I think "little" of this country? I love this country as much as anyone can. I know you were born here and you think that fact gives you the privilege of loving this country. Well, I had to struggle for years, win a lawsuit, get beaten up a few times and even get tortured for stating my true opinion and my love for this country. So cut me some slack here, I know I am a lower being than you since I am not white but come on...

And you know what, if YOU could go to a third world country and had to live there even for a short while, you would stop acting like a spoilt child and complaining about everything under the sun.

Seriously, I wish racism was something you could just remove from someone. Here I am telling you that you have a beautiful thing in your hands, and some politician and bureaucrats are scaring you into handing it over to them. And you get defensive? Now, why the hell would you do that?

Besides, to those of you talking about the "imaginary database". Wake up, THERE IS NO SUCH THING. The police can not determine my legal status, or for some reason just will not. I know people who got arrested and spent MONTHS in detention just because they did not have their IDs with them and got arrested with the suspicion of being here illegally. They were not issued bond, and months went by before they could see a judge who immediately released them. So what, I am supposed to be ok with spending months in detention?

Something is NOT working here, and you are blinded by either racism or patriotism so bad that you are just unable to see it.

Oh by the way, I am one of the people that the United States would like to keep. I graduated from the top engineering school in the country with honors, and am working on my masters in one of the best graduate schools in the country, and have about 6 standing job offers.

So do not mistake me for one of those who roll over the border into the United States and comment as if you are talking to one of them.
Epic fail on the 'race card' there: Turks ARE just as White as a Nordic Swede.
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Old 05-16-2010, 09:20 AM
 
Location: Wasilla, Alaska
17,580 posts, read 11,192,994 times
Reputation: 6196
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boompa View Post
That is NOT TRUE, you are required to present proof of Citizenship.
It is true, and there is no requirement in the AZ law to provide law enforcement with anything. If you are not operating a motorized vehicle and stopped by law enforcement, you are only required to give your name. You are not required to have any ID of any kind, and you are not required to answer any further questions.

I suggest you read Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial District Court of Nevada, 542 U.S. 177 (2004).
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Old 05-16-2010, 09:24 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 6,097,933 times
Reputation: 2119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boompa View Post
That is NOT TRUE, you are required to present proof of Citizenship.
No, what you are required to do when stopped by LE is to provide a valid I.D. such as a DL, state I.D., green card. Only if you cannot provide any of those does your status in this country come into question.
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Old 05-16-2010, 09:27 AM
 
Location: Wasilla, Alaska
17,580 posts, read 11,192,994 times
Reputation: 6196
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
No, what you are required to do when stopped by LE is to provide a valid I.D. such as a DL, state I.D., green card. Only if you cannot provide any of those does your status in this country come into question.
You are only required to provide a driver's license if you are operating a motorized vehicle at the time you are stopped by law enforcement. Otherwise no ID of any kind is required. Nor is anyone required to answer any question law enforcement asks beyond what is their name.

This is the way it is throughout the US, not just in Arizona.
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Old 05-16-2010, 09:28 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 6,097,933 times
Reputation: 2119
Quote:
Originally Posted by iamseriouslypissedoff View Post
I suggest you keep your opinions to yourself regarding where I spend my time., or at least act like you possess the ability to understand something that you read.

What gave you the idea that I think "little" of this country? I love this country as much as anyone can. I know you were born here and you think that fact gives you the privilege of loving this country. Well, I had to struggle for years, win a lawsuit, get beaten up a few times and even get tortured for stating my true opinion and my love for this country. So cut me some slack here, I know I am a lower being than you since I am not white but come on...

And you know what, if YOU could go to a third world country and had to live there even for a short while, you would stop acting like a spoilt child and complaining about everything under the sun.

Seriously, I wish racism was something you could just remove from someone. Here I am telling you that you have a beautiful thing in your hands, and some politician and bureaucrats are scaring you into handing it over to them. And you get defensive? Now, why the hell would you do that?

Besides, to those of you talking about the "imaginary database". Wake up, THERE IS NO SUCH THING. The police can not determine my legal status, or for some reason just will not. I know people who got arrested and spent MONTHS in detention just because they did not have their IDs with them and got arrested with the suspicion of being here illegally. They were not issued bond, and months went by before they could see a judge who immediately released them. So what, I am supposed to be ok with spending months in detention?

Something is NOT working here, and you are blinded by either racism or patriotism so bad that you are just unable to see it.

Oh by the way, I am one of the people that the United States would like to keep. I graduated from the top engineering school in the country with honors, and am working on my masters in one of the best graduate schools in the country, and have about 6 standing job offers.

So do not mistake me for one of those who roll over the border into the United States and comment as if you are talking to one of them.
Your initial post spoke for itself. You displayed a lot of contempt for U.S. law and the way we do things here. We have every right to enforce our immigration laws just as any other country. Sorry you think that is over the top patriotism and racism, therefore my comments to you that if you don't immigration laws being enforced then go back to Turkey.

Your race card pulling is not going to make you any friends in this forum either.
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