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Old 05-18-2010, 03:47 AM
 
1,150 posts, read 934,309 times
Reputation: 369

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<<We need to know the definition of "lawful contact" as well.>>

Let me see if I can give you a few examples of lawful contact:

Someone is caught prowling around a house in the middle of the night.
Someone is weaving while driving, runs a stop sign, or is speeding.
A man is seen going into a bank with a ski mask and gloves on, or carrying a gun.
A man is seen coming out of an electronics store in the middle of the night, and putting a big screen tv in his truck.
A man is seen looking in someone's window.
Someone is seen snatching a woman's purse, or picking a pocket.
Someone is caught shoplifting.
Someone is driving a car that's been reported stolen.
Police are called to settle a domestic dispute.

There are many other examples, but this should give you an idea of the lawful contacts police can make, and then question a person as to their legal status if they have reason to believe the person may be an illegal alien.
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Old 05-18-2010, 04:01 AM
 
1,150 posts, read 934,309 times
Reputation: 369
<<As long as you are not breaking a law, you are not required to show identification.>>

Well, you tell them that the next time you try to get on a plane, rent a car, or cash a check.


<<So you have no problem with the police searching American citizens who have not broken any laws.>>

Asking for id is hardly the same as 'searching' someone.
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Old 05-18-2010, 06:04 AM
 
22,672 posts, read 20,987,313 times
Reputation: 13408
FOXNews.com - Cost of Illegal Immigration Rising Rapidly in Arizona, Study Finds

All those who are in this country are illegals...if your in this country, I don't care who you are, even if your the pope, you should have I.D. i.e. drivers license, whatever...if you don't, you should be arrested, held over night and checked out, and if you are in fact illegal, then you should be deported...

illegal means illegal...it's not racial profiling...our systems are being drained and we are going broke...it's time American's realize this and do something....if they want to be in this country, fine, lets re-establish our broken immigration sytems, close the boarders with walls and heavy survellence, and let those in, who want to work at becomeing a U.S. citizen, and contribute to this country, by paying taxes, like everyone else.

And it's time those who hire illegals for cheap wages be held accountable...they've been getting away with this for years...now it's time to fine them...

Put into place a system that works, that keeps track of anyone who is in this country illegally....if they do not acquire legal citizenship, deport them, if they are illegal, deport them...

Politicans...listen up...and do your jobs...our systems are corrupt and broken b/c of you....
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Old 05-18-2010, 09:45 AM
Status: "pissed at violence" (set 27 days ago)
 
Location: Texas
1,029 posts, read 890,523 times
Reputation: 1325
Default don't be naive

cremebrulee-are you being naive, a devil's advocate or do you really not care? Holdencaulfield is bringing up some good points. He is not saying an individual's own company would do a drug test but the government. That is very different. The government being involved in all parts of our lives is something many people fear and work against. Are you saying you welcome their involvement in every apsect of our lives? Sounds like the begining of when any time in history a country's government took over and told people what to do. I may not agree with tea party folks but in one way I often agree with Libertarians and other educated tea party'ers we must not give up our rights willingly and sacrifice our liberty for a short term goal. That is plain stupid.

I just read a book about what happened in Czechcloslovakia in the middle of the 1900's when the Russians came in. People let them take over because they assumed they were decent and soon they executed all the opposing Czech party members. Never willingly give up your rights to solve a temporary crisis.

So cremebrulee and others that agree with him/her. Are you saying you trust your government? Always and no matter what?
--
getting back to the topic-I will have to look at the actual bill and the opionions of a variety others more before I make up my mind of whether I think the new Arizona bill allows searches of law abiding citizens. I will not agree either way without information.

Last edited by creepy; 05-18-2010 at 09:46 AM.. Reason: misspellings and used wrong words.
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Old 05-18-2010, 09:59 AM
 
Location: Wasilla, Alaska
17,852 posts, read 18,479,966 times
Reputation: 6446
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
Not sure but I am quite certain the SSN and DOB along with name and address will serve you if you dont have your ID or drivers license. I could be wrong I admit this.
If you are just walking down the street and stopped by law enforcement you are only required to give your legal and proper name when asked (even if you have ID on you), nothing more. In the US you are innocent until proven guilty by a court of law. Which means it is not up to you to prove you are innocent, it is up to law enforcement and the courts to prove that you are guilty.
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Old 05-18-2010, 10:02 AM
 
Location: NY
2,007 posts, read 3,215,563 times
Reputation: 904
Why not read the law for yourself and get the answer right there? Just Google it. It's easy!
After you do, please post here anything you find that is illegal or unconstitutional. ( Hint: you won't find anything! )
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Old 05-18-2010, 10:05 AM
 
Location: Pa
20,317 posts, read 17,811,932 times
Reputation: 6499
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glitch View Post
If you are just walking down the street and stopped by law enforcement you are only required to give your legal and proper name when asked (even if you have ID on you), nothing more. In the US you are innocent until proven guilty by a court of law. Which means it is not up to you to prove you are innocent, it is up to law enforcement and the courts to prove that you are guilty.
Unless the police officer feels that he has reasonable cause.
Besides who is talking about being stopped for walking down the street?
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Old 05-18-2010, 10:07 AM
 
Location: Pa
20,317 posts, read 17,811,932 times
Reputation: 6499
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayarcy View Post
<<As long as you are not breaking a law, you are not required to show identification.>>

Well, you tell them that the next time you try to get on a plane, rent a car, or cash a check.


<<So you have no problem with the police searching American citizens who have not broken any laws.>>

Asking for id is hardly the same as 'searching' someone.
Thank you for a reasonable post.
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Old 05-18-2010, 10:12 AM
 
Location: Wasilla, Alaska
17,852 posts, read 18,479,966 times
Reputation: 6446
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
Unless the police officer feels that he has reasonable cause.
Besides who is talking about being stopped for walking down the street?
Reasonable suspicion that a crime has been, will be, or is in the process of being committed is sufficient cause for any law enforcement officer to detain someone. And you are still only required to give your name when asked, and nothing else. Even if you have ID on you at the time, you are not required to provide it or answer any other question being asked.

If you had read the prior posts in this thread, you will find that several people, including myself, have been referring to people who are NOT operating a motorized vehicle.
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Old 05-18-2010, 10:23 AM
 
Location: Pa
20,317 posts, read 17,811,932 times
Reputation: 6499
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glitch View Post
Reasonable suspicion that a crime has been, will be, or is in the process of being committed is sufficient cause for any law enforcement officer to detain someone. And you are still only required to give your name when asked, and nothing else. Even if you have ID on you at the time, you are not required to provide it or answer any other question being asked.

If you had read the prior posts in this thread, you will find that several people, including myself, have been referring to people who are NOT operating a motorized vehicle.
Understood, however I was responding to someone who said that the police have no way to identify you unless you have a valid ID on your person.
I know for a fact that my friend while in another state had no issue establishing who he was without his ID. No one said that he was required to give all that information. My friend who like myself is an honest man. He gave it because he had nothing to fear. I would not have given the cop my SSN though because I know that some cops are less than honest. I also wouldn't want that transmitted over any radio.
Quite honestly I don't understand why you are focused on my post. I certainly never used the word required or eluded to the word required.
That said I would give a police officer my ID if requested. I lived 12 years in the Military carrying ID is no big deal nor is presenting it when requested.
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