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Old 05-18-2010, 09:28 AM
 
Location: Wasilla, Alaska
17,850 posts, read 19,606,133 times
Reputation: 6479

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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
Understood, however I was responding to someone who said that the police have no way to identify you unless you have a valid ID on your person.
I know for a fact that my friend while in another state had no issue establishing who he was without his ID. No one said that he was required to give all that information. My friend who like myself is an honest man. He gave it because he had nothing to fear. I would not have given the cop my SSN though because I know that some cops are less than honest. I also wouldn't want that transmitted over any radio.
Quite honestly I don't understand why you are focused on my post. I certainly never used the word required or eluded to the word required.
That said I would give a police officer my ID if requested. I lived 12 years in the Military carrying ID is no big deal nor is presenting it when requested.
In other words, your friend voluntarily waived his constitutional protected rights under the 4th Amendment. Your friend may be honest, but clearly not very bright. What part of "you have the right to remain silent" does your friend not comprehend?
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Old 05-18-2010, 09:30 AM
 
Location: southern california
55,237 posts, read 72,453,647 times
Reputation: 47456
up to the time the dog sniffs that kilo in your trunk-- the law abiding citizen defense works great. of course if you got felonies what does law abiding citizen mean?? like so far this morning???
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Old 05-18-2010, 09:59 AM
 
25,470 posts, read 23,300,409 times
Reputation: 15333
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
Understood, however I was responding to someone who said that the police have no way to identify you unless you have a valid ID on your person.
I know for a fact that my friend while in another state had no issue establishing who he was without his ID. No one said that he was required to give all that information. My friend who like myself is an honest man. He gave it because he had nothing to fear. I would not have given the cop my SSN though because I know that some cops are less than honest. I also wouldn't want that transmitted over any radio.
Quite honestly I don't understand why you are focused on my post. I certainly never used the word required or eluded to the word required.
That said I would give a police officer my ID if requested. I lived 12 years in the Military carrying ID is no big deal nor is presenting it when requested.
if you own a drivers license, you own ID, and your drivers license should be with you at all times...right?

If your not a citizen of the U.S. you carry papers which proves who you are?

To me, that's easy enough, right?
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Old 05-18-2010, 10:03 AM
 
25,470 posts, read 23,300,409 times
Reputation: 15333
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glitch View Post
In other words, your friend voluntarily waived his constitutional protected rights under the 4th Amendment. Your friend may be honest, but clearly not very bright. What part of "you have the right to remain silent" does your friend not comprehend?
you have got to be kidding?

If a police officer asks you for ID, you mean, your not going to show it to him...and if your not an American citizen, you have no constitutional rights...and if someone asks me for ID, I'm certainly going to give it to them....

You people are taking this all the way over to the other side which is illogical....

Years ago, this wasn't an issue and we didn't have these kind of problems...why, b/c illegal meant just that...our border system worked along with immigration laws....

I want America cleaned up and the illegals outa here...period....
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Old 05-18-2010, 10:11 AM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,893,897 times
Reputation: 6517
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glitch View Post
In other words, your friend voluntarily waived his constitutional protected rights under the 4th Amendment. Your friend may be honest, but clearly not very bright. What part of "you have the right to remain silent" does your friend not comprehend?
Not very bright? Or free of any guilt? Not everyone worries what the police may or not find out about them. That said I myself would not have given up the ssn.
As I said before he was aproached by the police because they thought he was acting strange. He had lost his wallet and was looking under cars along the curb where he had parked earlier that night. Not unreasonable for the police to question what he was doing.
He didn't want any problems being 1900 miles from home so he cooperated. In this instance I think he was smart. Not everyone wants to do battle with the police just because the law says that we can. Some are actually willing to cooperate. He is also former military and like myself has no issue with authority.
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Old 05-18-2010, 10:58 AM
 
1,031 posts, read 2,024,794 times
Reputation: 384
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepejeep View Post
Why not read the law for yourself and get the answer right there? Just Google it. It's easy!
After you do, please post here anything you find that is illegal or unconstitutional. ( Hint: you won't find anything! )
Is this coming from a judge or constitutional lawyer?
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Old 05-18-2010, 11:05 AM
 
1,038 posts, read 1,032,008 times
Reputation: 265
Quote:
Originally Posted by cremebrulee View Post
you have got to be kidding?

If a police officer asks you for ID, you mean, your not going to show it to him...and if your not an American citizen, you have no constitutional rights...and if someone asks me for ID, I'm certainly going to give it to them....

You people are taking this all the way over to the other side which is illogical....

Years ago, this wasn't an issue and we didn't have these kind of problems...why, b/c illegal meant just that...our border system worked along with immigration laws....

I want America cleaned up and the illegals outa here...period....
You agree that the police can ask you and any other citizen to verify residency status, based on suspicion. If you fail to verify it, do the police have a right to detain you? Arrest you? This sounds like guilty until proven innocent
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Old 05-18-2010, 11:24 AM
 
Location: NY
2,007 posts, read 3,363,550 times
Reputation: 905
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kabluey View Post
Is this coming from a judge or constitutional lawyer?
Simply from someone who can READ! If you come across anything questionable, you can look it up to see if it's in any way illegal. You gotta do a little research. Try it, it's fun to learn some truth.
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Old 05-18-2010, 11:24 AM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,893,897 times
Reputation: 6517
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holdencaulfield View Post
You agree that the police can ask you and any other citizen to verify residency status, based on suspicion. If you fail to verify it, do the police have a right to detain you? Arrest you? This sounds like guilty until proven innocent
What led up to the request?
Using a slim jim to unlock a car door? Hey its my car!! I would want the police to verify that fact.
In my friends case.
Looking under cars at 11pm at night. I would hope that the police would question his motives and what he was up too.
Isn't that part of what we pay them to do? Observe and confront suspicious behaviors?
So yes I agree that the police can ask you to identify yourself when you are doing something that provokes suspicion. In fact I think that they should be fired if they don't.
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Old 05-18-2010, 11:36 AM
 
1,031 posts, read 2,024,794 times
Reputation: 384
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glitch View Post
In other words, your friend voluntarily waived his constitutional protected rights under the 4th Amendment. Your friend may be honest, but clearly not very bright. What part of "you have the right to remain silent" does your friend not comprehend?
FWIW, I know many bright people who volunteer that information. It comes with upbringing, and the sense that law enforcement should be respected, even if they don't always comport themselves respectably. It may be naivete, but it isn't lack of intelligence. Many of these folks also come from other nations. My parents would quickly volunteer the information. One is a cytogeneticist. The other is a physics professor. I also know many folks from the WWII generation and their children who share that mentality as well. It took me 25 years to wean myself off of this mentality and into wilful, deliberate, but careful cooperation and respect.

I think the combination of immediate shock of seeing the lights and/or the badge and a certain naivete in our upbringing often overcome the awareness and assertion of our rights (I've told several of my friends to invoke their rights over and over, and still in the moment, they take the way out that is immediately easy, but may be long term more difficult), unless we are trained in experiencing that, and responding shrewdly.
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