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Old 04-27-2010, 09:05 AM
 
Location: Here
10,365 posts, read 10,810,165 times
Reputation: 5432

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gil3 View Post
Creme..I can say without a doubt that the majority of us want our government and elected officials to perform their duties. However, the problem I have with this law is that it is subject to rampant abuse and misuse, espeically when skin color and ethnicity will without a doubt be the basis for such arbitrary stops. Anyone who thinks this law is not about profiling and discrimination is in serious denial.
How about letting the friggin' bill go into effect before making all these grand assumptions.
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Old 04-27-2010, 09:07 AM
 
Location: Sierra Vista, AZ
16,061 posts, read 18,991,472 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holdencaulfield View Post
Many on here claim that only illegal immigrants will be subject to the law. My understanding of the bill is that police can search anyone and demand to see proof of citizenship, including pedestrians. Which one is it? Is this law only for illegals or for anyone suspect? Are you required to carry a drivers license if you don't drive? If in fact the police have a right to search law abiding citizens who have commited no crime, is this constitutional?
Yes it does and No it's NOT

Once it comes into force people who came here after World War II to escape the Nazis and Communists will be required to carry their immigration papers.
The Police will be forced to challenge the citizenship of anyone they come in contact with or be charged with profiling. The law was drawn up by out of state lawyers who plan to sue every municipality that isn't locking enough people up. All they needed to do was find a state stupid enough to pass the law

Welcome to Arizona, the Meth Lab of Democracy
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Old 04-27-2010, 09:07 AM
 
Location: 3rd rock from the sun
3,858 posts, read 5,672,281 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 01Snake View Post
How about letting the friggin' bill go into effect before making all these grand assumptions.
How about letting the Health Care bill go into effect before making grand assumptions?
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Old 04-27-2010, 09:11 AM
 
624 posts, read 807,575 times
Reputation: 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holdencaulfield View Post
Many on here claim that only illegal immigrants will be subject to the law. My understanding of the bill is that police can search anyone and demand to see proof of citizenship, including pedestrians. Which one is it? Is this law only for illegals or for anyone suspect? Are you required to carry a drivers license if you don't drive? If in fact the police have a right to search law abiding citizens who have commited no crime, is this constitutional?
So, let me ask you this... If I walk over to the US/MEX border, and the US Border Patrol asks me for my papers, they are asking me for something that's against the US Constitution?

Or does the constitution not apply near the border? (in your understanding of what's constitutional and what's not)
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Old 04-27-2010, 09:11 AM
 
Location: Here
10,365 posts, read 10,810,165 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Siete View Post
How about letting the Health Care bill go into effect before making grand assumptions?
Nice leap.
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Old 04-27-2010, 09:12 AM
 
22,643 posts, read 20,900,572 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gil3 View Post
Creme..I can say without a doubt that the majority of us want our government and elected officials to perform their duties. However, the problem I have with this law is that it is subject to rampant abuse and misuse, espeically when skin color and ethnicity will without a doubt be the basis for such arbitrary stops. Anyone who thinks this law is not about profiling and discrimination is in serious denial.

As a natural born U.S. citizen, military veteran and taxpayer, yes, I am outraged by the illegal immigration problem, but on the other hand, I'm also concerned that my and the rights of others who are here lawfully and legally could be violated merely because we possess physical characteristics tha could give police "reasonable" suspicicion that we do not.

My primary concern is that the law, once it takes effect in other parts of the country, will not be enforced fairly and civily.
Hi Gil
Yes, they could be violated, there are laws violated all over the world....everyone is freaking out about this, and assuming...you have dirty cops and cops out there who want to make a difference, you have good and bad in every law...every person....I think people are making way to much out of this...this is what was done many years ago, before people started bending the laws to suit themselves....this is simply a start, and a statement, and I don't blame Arizona one bit...my friend who lived there and ran a business there, got robbed blind because he couldn't find anyone who wanted to at that time, to run his business...when my son and I went to visit him...he put us up, and was the most trusting person, even then, which was probably about 14 years ago...it was loaded with Mexicans...I was shocked, and they were illegals...my friend wouldn't hire illegals, they had to show him the proper documents...however, they still robbed him...

I will say, that most of them do a marvelous job, and are nice people...however, if I break the law, are you going to ignore me, b/c I'm a nice person?

There is a fine line here, I agree, however, something MUST be done...as I said before, I don't believe this country has any idea how illegals are breaking our systems..closing hospitals...my aunt had to go to some clinic, b/c they closed so many hospitals out in CA. Why? Because so many illegals were going there with sick kids, and not paying...while granted, I realize, they're plight...however, they have to realize ours...it's a total disrespect to our system...they should deem it a privilege to be here and do everything they can to become legal...to gain better pay and benefits...if millions of people would become a legal US citizen, they would surely help out....I have friends who came to this country legally, and got they're citizenship...they are appauled at the arrogance of these people who feel, it's ok to be doing what they are doing...
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Old 04-27-2010, 09:18 AM
 
8,652 posts, read 14,137,672 times
Reputation: 4542
Quote:
Originally Posted by kerrymac View Post
If your not illegal....who cares!

Oh and if the Feds would kick out the illegals in the 1st place...this would be a none issue!
I think it's because they have family members that are..
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Old 04-27-2010, 09:22 AM
 
8,652 posts, read 14,137,672 times
Reputation: 4542
Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
This is how the law reads in part:

ARTICLE 8. ENFORCEMENT OF IMMIGRATION LAWS
11-1051. Cooperation and assistance in enforcement of immigration laws; indemnification

B. FOR ANY LAWFUL CONTACT MADE BY A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR AGENCY
OF THIS STATE OR A COUNTY, CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THIS
STATE WHERE REASONABLE SUSPICION EXISTS THAT THE PERSON IS AN ALIEN WHO IS UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES, A REASONABLE ATTEMPT SHALL BE MADE, WHEN PRACTICABLE, TO DETERMINE THE IMMIGRATION STATUS OF THE PERSON. THE PERSON'S IMMIGRATION STATUS SHALL BE VERIFIED WITH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT
PURSUANT TO 8 UNITED STATES CODE SECTION 1373(c).

http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r/bills/sb1070s.pdf

How you establish a constitutional standard for reasonable suspicion is beyond me.
It'd done here in the county jail, so it must be... And after the State of Texas is finished with them we turn them over to the Feds...

And the federal government checks all of the time, so tell me why can't a state check.... You've heard of work place raids haven't you?
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Old 04-27-2010, 09:24 AM
 
624 posts, read 807,575 times
Reputation: 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gil3 View Post
Creme..I can say without a doubt that the majority of us want our government and elected officials to perform their duties. However, the problem I have with this law is that it is subject to rampant abuse and misuse, espeically when skin color and ethnicity will without a doubt be the basis for such arbitrary stops. Anyone who thinks this law is not about profiling and discrimination is in serious denial.

As a natural born U.S. citizen, military veteran and taxpayer, yes, I am outraged by the illegal immigration problem, but on the other hand, I'm also concerned that my and the rights of others who are here lawfully and legally could be violated merely because we possess physical characteristics tha could give police "reasonable" suspicicion that we do not.

My primary concern is that the law, once it takes effect in other parts of the country, will not be enforced fairly and civily.
Thank you for your service to this country. But please, don't just critique someone without offering an alternative. You don't like the new law. OK, but what do *you* think should be done?

How would *YOU* handle the problem with illegal immigration if you were the AZ Governor?
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Old 04-27-2010, 09:27 AM
 
8,652 posts, read 14,137,672 times
Reputation: 4542
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gyconi View Post
You know, I don't understand why people are so outraged by Arizona's new law. After all, it worked so well for Germany!
Our government does it all of the time... work place raids looking for illegals... It seems to work for them too....
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