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Old 04-28-2010, 11:58 AM
 
Location: Jewel Lake (Sagle) Idaho
25,341 posts, read 16,290,366 times
Reputation: 14070

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Quote:
Originally Posted by twista6002 View Post
The fact of the matter this won't curb illegal immigration. They'll still be in hospitals and using other public utilities. The people behind the law don't understand the first thing about why they come here in the first place.
It's pretty simple to address that. If you can't product proof of citizenship (e-verify), you don't get public services. That wasn't so hard, was it?
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Old 04-28-2010, 12:01 PM
 
Location: TX
1,098 posts, read 1,540,319 times
Reputation: 590
Quote:
Originally Posted by twista6002 View Post
So it's perfectly fine with tea partiers if a state government spends billions and billions in an unconstitutional law that will render itself ineffective?

I can't speak for Tea Party members - but personally speaking, since I don't live in Arizona, the government and people of Arizona (or any other state I don't live in) could pass a great many laws and spend large amounts of their state tax revenues in many different ways that I would not have any issue with. See, this country is called "The United States of America" - so that mean there are many different areas, called "States", that you can choose to or not to live in and/or visit if you so desire. It's pretty cool, because when you live in one "State", lot's of things can happen in other "States" and it doesn't necessarily affect you in your "State". It's a concept that has worked great for a couple hundred years.

If you don't mind me asking, do you live in Arizona?

Last edited by tyanger; 04-28-2010 at 12:10 PM..
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Old 04-28-2010, 12:06 PM
 
Location: In the desert
2,445 posts, read 1,853,364 times
Reputation: 1059
Quote:
Originally Posted by kerrymac View Post
Um thats a dumb statement...so do nothing? LOL

Kickem out and fence the damn place...
It is actually NOT a dumb statement. I personally know someone who was deported and I was shocked to see him back in Phoenix in about 9 days.
It costs AZ about 23 thousand dollars per illegal from time of arrest to deportation. It would seem reasonable to me to use that money to protect the border FIRST, then go after the illegals that are here.
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Old 04-28-2010, 12:07 PM
 
12,439 posts, read 9,954,066 times
Reputation: 3129
Quote:
Originally Posted by kerrymac View Post
Again its not un-cons.....read it before you write.
You are correct it is not unconstitutional until the Supreme Court says that it is, which I believe that this conservative court will. It is a very simple 4th amendment violation. You can pull anyone over who you believe is illegal??? What does an illegal look like?? How does an illegal person of mexican heritage look different from that of one that is here legally or a citizen?? What does an illegal Russian look like. What makes them look different than any other white person in the U.S.?? That is why It should be held unconstitutional because it is too vague.
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Old 04-28-2010, 12:10 PM
 
10,543 posts, read 11,682,359 times
Reputation: 2797
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotair2 View Post
You are correct it is not unconstitutional until the Supreme Court says that it is, which I believe that this conservative court will. It is a very simple 4th amendment violation. You can pull anyone over who you believe is illegal??? What does an illegal look like?? How does an illegal person of mexican heritage look different from that of one that is here legally or a citizen?? What does an illegal Russian look like. What makes them look different than any other white person in the U.S.?? That is why It should be held unconstitutional because it is too vague.
That's not what it says. They have to be pulled over for something else, and there has to be reasonable suspicion beyond simply race or ethnicity (specifically stated in the law).
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Old 04-28-2010, 12:12 PM
 
Location: TX
1,098 posts, read 1,540,319 times
Reputation: 590
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotair2 View Post
You are correct it is not unconstitutional until the Supreme Court says that it is, which I believe that this conservative court will. It is a very simple 4th amendment violation. You can pull anyone over who you believe is illegal??? What does an illegal look like?? How does an illegal person of mexican heritage look different from that of one that is here legally or a citizen?? What does an illegal Russian look like. What makes them look different than any other white person in the U.S.?? That is why It should be held unconstitutional because it is too vague.
Answer=No

Please read (or re-read) the actual full text of the law. It does not say this(bold/underlined section).
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Old 04-28-2010, 12:13 PM
 
Location: Highland, CA (formerly Newark, NJ)
6,183 posts, read 4,780,744 times
Reputation: 2150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rggr View Post
That's not what it says. They have to be pulled over for something else, and there has to be reasonable suspicion beyond simply race or ethnicity (specifically stated in the law).
Them being nervous, no license plate, etc does in no means prove someone isn't an illegal immigrant. There are plenty of normal Americans who these would all apply to. If they got caught, will they be deported, even though they're not from outside the country? This is legalized profiling and you know it.
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Old 04-28-2010, 12:16 PM
 
Location: TX
1,098 posts, read 1,540,319 times
Reputation: 590
Quote:
Originally Posted by twista6002 View Post
Them being nervous, no license plate, etc does in no means prove someone isn't an illegal immigrant. There are plenty of normal Americans who these would all apply to. If they got caught, will they be deported, even though they're not from outside the country? This is legalized profiling and you know it.
This is not in the law either (bold/underlined/italicized section).

Please read (or re-read) the actual full text of the law.
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Old 04-28-2010, 12:18 PM
 
Location: Tyler, TX
15,194 posts, read 17,689,444 times
Reputation: 7980
Quote:
Originally Posted by twista6002 View Post
So it's perfectly fine with tea partiers if a state government spends billions and billions in an unconstitutional law that will render itself ineffective?
You'd have to ask every single one of the people involved in the movement individually, to get their opinions on the matter.

Let me make this perfectly clear, since you seem to be a bit too dense to grasp the concept on your own: The tea party movement is primarily concerned with spending and general irresponsibility by the FEDERAL government. The movement has NOTHING to do with STATE or LOCAL governments.

The entire premise of your thread is based on the false assumption that the Tea Party movement gives a crap about what happens in the Arizona state government.

Frankly, you look more than a little foolish for starting the thread at all...
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Old 04-28-2010, 12:24 PM
 
12,439 posts, read 9,954,066 times
Reputation: 3129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rggr View Post
That's not what it says. They have to be pulled over for something else, and there has to be reasonable suspicion beyond simply race or ethnicity (specifically stated in the law).
I read the bill and I did not see that. I did read that if they have reasonable suspicion that they are here illegally they may detain them. Police can already detain someone if they are picked up for another offense. I am not against an immigration crackdown. I am all for making it a criminal offense for hiring illegals, which the law does; however, I am not in favor of trampling on the Constitution to achieve the results.
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