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Old 04-28-2010, 01:21 PM
 
470 posts, read 388,682 times
Reputation: 138

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Quote:
Originally Posted by EinsteinsGhost View Post
Which part of my post did you get? It may be better to start from there.
Just like Twista you can't find anything unconstitutional as it is written can you?

 
Old 04-28-2010, 01:21 PM
 
Location: Highland, CA (formerly Newark, NJ)
6,183 posts, read 4,778,733 times
Reputation: 2150
Quote:
Originally Posted by db1025 View Post
nice wiggling. So you are saying that ONLY drunk people are targeted in DUI checkpoints and nobody else has to stop? You are plain out lying to yourself. They will weed out illegals the same way they try to weed out drunk drivers. If you don't accept this practice, why aren't you raging about it? You simply said in another post that it is no big deal to have to show ID when caught in a DUI checkpoint where you were told by law enforcement to pull over and show your paperwork without any probable cause whatsoever. This practice is much more unconstitutional than the AZ law, yet the public ignores it.
Yep. In DUI checkpoints (I'm a pizza delivery guy I've been through dozens), they pretty much like for the obvious signs of intoxication. Show em your license and you're free to go. No unreasonable search and seizure unless there's very probably cause.

How will illegals be weeded out? It's not like they're obvious as drunks.

This is going to lead to mass profiling, and millions of dollars will be wasted in courts.
 
Old 04-28-2010, 01:22 PM
 
10,543 posts, read 11,680,657 times
Reputation: 2797
Quote:
Originally Posted by twista6002 View Post
Can you show proof of it spilling over? That's the creed of the fearmongered. If they passed the law based on something miniscule as that, this law is even more of an abortion than I once thought. I guarantee the overwhelming majority of illegal immigrants in this country have nothing to do with drugs.
I can show news stories. I tell you what. I'll find some links to that when you show me proof that this law allows police to round people up because of skin color. How's that?

The illegal immigrants have come for a multitude of reasons, and Arizona has been complaining for a long time. The violence was the tipping point for Arizona.
 
Old 04-28-2010, 01:23 PM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
31,777 posts, read 24,004,420 times
Reputation: 12105
Quote:
Originally Posted by floridasandy View Post
i was responding to this post, and letting you know that i don't think illegal immigration is EVER fine or EVER okay, and that it is ALWAYS lawbreaking.

these are lawbreakers.
Which was a response to your post which was a response to mine that brought up Reagan and his vote for amnesty. When you track back, make sure you go all the way to have a proper perspective, don't try it halfway down the line unless you want to derail a train of arguments on purpose.
 
Old 04-28-2010, 01:25 PM
 
Location: Highland, CA (formerly Newark, NJ)
6,183 posts, read 4,778,733 times
Reputation: 2150
Quote:
Originally Posted by db1025 View Post
Just like Twista you can't find anything unconstitutional as it is written can you?
Third time I've posted this:

Fourth Amendment Defined & Explained
 
Old 04-28-2010, 01:27 PM
 
470 posts, read 388,682 times
Reputation: 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by twista6002 View Post
Yep. In DUI checkpoints (I'm a pizza delivery guy I've been through dozens), they pretty much like for the obvious signs of intoxication. Show em your license and you're free to go. No unreasonable search and seizure unless there's very probably cause.

How will illegals be weeded out? It's not like they're obvious as drunks.

This is going to lead to mass profiling, and millions of dollars will be wasted in courts.
Again you are purposely being difficult because you know the truth and you just can't admit it. You can't look for obvious signs of intoxication without stopping at the checkpoint first which they HAD NO PROBABLE CAUSE to even stop you. You like putting the cart before the horse and that is how you are going to justify this? Getting pinched in a DUI check when you were drinking is illegal search and seizure according to the 4th Amendment. So knowing that, why is that practice ok with you and most other people, but this AZ law not? They can conduct it in the same way. Setup traffic safety stops and check ID's just like in a DUI checkpoint. If it is legal to do for DUI's it is legal to do here as well.
 
Old 04-28-2010, 01:28 PM
 
Location: Highland, CA (formerly Newark, NJ)
6,183 posts, read 4,778,733 times
Reputation: 2150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rggr View Post
I can show news stories. I tell you what. I'll find some links to that when you show me proof that this law allows police to round people up because of skin color. How's that?

The illegal immigrants have come for a multitude of reasons, and Arizona has been complaining for a long time. The violence was the tipping point for Arizona.
Police have been rounding up people because of their skin color well before you and I were born. This basically gives police the right to question anyone for any reason their legitimacy of citizenship. How the hell do you think they're going to weed people out? And the violent tendencies of illegal immigrants are no more greater than violent tendencies of legal immigrants and Americans.
 
Old 04-28-2010, 01:28 PM
 
470 posts, read 388,682 times
Reputation: 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by twista6002 View Post
Third time I've posted this:

Fourth Amendment Defined & Explained
you can stuff your link in your pipe and smoke it. YOU need to point out where YOU think the violations are. Again, you can't.
 
Old 04-28-2010, 01:33 PM
 
10,543 posts, read 11,680,657 times
Reputation: 2797
Quote:
Originally Posted by twista6002 View Post
Third time I've posted this:

Fourth Amendment Defined & Explained
From your link:

"To pass muster under the Fourth Amendment, detention must be 'reasonable." - (Arizona law specifically states this and is therefore consistent with the 4th Amendment)

"In the context of a criminal arrest, a detention of longer than 48 hours without a probable cause determination violates the Fourth Amendment as a matter of law in the absence of a demonstrated emergency or other extraordinary circumstance" - (Arizona law specifically states this and is therefore consistent with the 4th Amendment)

"Even in the law enforcement context, the State may interfere with an individual's Fourth Amendment interests with less than probable cause and without a warrant if the intrusion is only minimal and is justified by law enforcement purposes. E.g., Michigan State Police Dept v. Sitz, 496 U.S. 444, 450 ('90); Terry v. Ohio, 392 U.S. 1, 20 ('68). "

Next?
 
Old 04-28-2010, 01:33 PM
 
Location: Highland, CA (formerly Newark, NJ)
6,183 posts, read 4,778,733 times
Reputation: 2150
Quote:
Originally Posted by db1025 View Post
Again you are purposely being difficult because you know the truth and you just can't admit it. You can't look for obvious signs of intoxication without stopping at the checkpoint first which they HAD NO PROBABLE CAUSE to even stop you. You like putting the cart before the horse and that is how you are going to justify this? Getting pinched in a DUI check when you were drinking is illegal search and seizure according to the 4th Amendment. So knowing that, why is that practice ok with you and most other people, but this AZ law not? They can conduct it in the same way. Setup traffic safety stops and check ID's just like in a DUI checkpoint. If it is legal to do for DUI's it is legal to do here as well.
Considering you've danced around the profiling and unconstitutional aspect, you're the one who "knows the truth and won't admit it".

Don't whine to me about DUI Checkpoints. It's Reagan and the RW in bed with MADD.

Police stop people all the time for no reasonable cause. Ever driven with a black guy in your car?

The SCOTUS said checkpoints are constitutional

MICHIGAN STATE POLICE V. SITZ, 496 U. S. 444 :: Volume 496 :: 1990 :: Full Text :: US Supreme Court Cases from Justia & Oyez
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