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Old 04-28-2010, 02:35 PM
 
10,543 posts, read 11,711,092 times
Reputation: 2797

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Quote:
Originally Posted by twista6002 View Post
Police have been rounding up people because of their skin color well before you and I were born. This basically gives police the right to question anyone for any reason their legitimacy of citizenship. How the hell do you think they're going to weed people out? And the violent tendencies of illegal immigrants are no more greater than violent tendencies of legal immigrants and Americans.
You keep asserting this, but the law specifically states that you are incorrect. You seem to want to discuss a fictional law that you have in mind versus what the law in question actually says.

 
Old 04-28-2010, 02:36 PM
 
Location: San Diego North County
4,800 posts, read 7,703,406 times
Reputation: 3010
Lindsey Graham is a pro-illegal alien apologist.

Who cares what he thinks.
 
Old 04-28-2010, 02:40 PM
 
Location: Highland, CA (formerly Newark, NJ)
6,183 posts, read 4,797,657 times
Reputation: 2150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rggr View Post
From your link:

"To pass muster under the Fourth Amendment, detention must be 'reasonable." - (Arizona law specifically states this and is therefore consistent with the 4th Amendment)

"In the context of a criminal arrest, a detention of longer than 48 hours without a probable cause determination violates the Fourth Amendment as a matter of law in the absence of a demonstrated emergency or other extraordinary circumstance" - (Arizona law specifically states this and is therefore consistent with the 4th Amendment)

"Even in the law enforcement context, the State may interfere with an individual's Fourth Amendment interests with less than probable cause and without a warrant if the intrusion is only minimal and is justified by law enforcement purposes. E.g., Michigan State Police Dept v. Sitz, 496 U.S. 444, 450 ('90); Terry v. Ohio, 392 U.S. 1, 20 ('68). "

Next?
Detention under the Arizona law isn't "reasonable". In theory, a legal citizen like me can be detained for not proving beyond reasonable suspiscion I'm a legal resident, simply for whatever violation I was originally pulled over for. I don't carry my birth certificate and SSN card with me at all times.
 
Old 04-28-2010, 02:43 PM
 
10,543 posts, read 11,711,092 times
Reputation: 2797
Quote:
Originally Posted by twista6002 View Post
Detention under the Arizona law isn't "reasonable". In theory, a legal citizen like me can be detained for not proving beyond reasonable suspiscion I'm a legal resident, simply for whatever violation I was originally pulled over for. I don't carry my birth certificate and SSN card with me at all times.

"Officer, my name is twista6002, and I live at __________"

Officer looks it up and calls it in.

Writes twista a ticket for not having driver's license.

Twista drives off complaining about the ticket.
 
Old 04-28-2010, 02:46 PM
 
Location: Highland, CA (formerly Newark, NJ)
6,183 posts, read 4,797,657 times
Reputation: 2150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rggr View Post
"Officer, my name is twista6002, and I live at __________"

Officer looks it up and calls it in.

Writes twista a ticket for not having driver's license.

Twista drives off complaining about the ticket.
In a perfect world. In order for this law to be seriously put into use you and I both know the convo won't go like that. And conveniently enough, this law also states towns can file suits against police departments if they feel they're not enforcing the law. This is one giant cluster of lawsuits and fecies waiting to explode.
 
Old 04-28-2010, 02:49 PM
 
470 posts, read 389,741 times
Reputation: 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by twista6002 View Post
Detention under the Arizona law isn't "reasonable". In theory, a legal citizen like me can be detained for not proving beyond reasonable suspiscion I'm a legal resident, simply for whatever violation I was originally pulled over for. I don't carry my birth certificate and SSN card with me at all times.
you will be detained ANYWHERE by law enforcement if you fail to prove who you are. If you simply deny telling them, you will be arrested and charged with a crime.
 
Old 04-28-2010, 02:50 PM
 
4,608 posts, read 7,128,706 times
Reputation: 1243
I would wonder if the failure of the U.S. government to protect Arizona might also be unconstitutional.
 
Old 04-28-2010, 02:50 PM
 
470 posts, read 389,741 times
Reputation: 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by twista6002 View Post
Considering you've danced around the profiling and unconstitutional aspect, you're the one who "knows the truth and won't admit it".

Don't whine to me about DUI Checkpoints. It's Reagan and the RW in bed with MADD.

Police stop people all the time for no reasonable cause. Ever driven with a black guy in your car?

The SCOTUS said checkpoints are constitutional

MICHIGAN STATE POLICE V. SITZ, 496 U. S. 444 :: Volume 496 :: 1990 :: Full Text :: US Supreme Court Cases from Justia & Oyez

If DUI checkpoints are legal, then so is using checkpoints to find illegals. Case closed!
 
Old 04-28-2010, 02:51 PM
 
10,543 posts, read 11,711,092 times
Reputation: 2797
Quote:
Originally Posted by twista6002 View Post
In a perfect world. In order for this law to be seriously put into use you and I both know the convo won't go like that..
So are you saying that if the law is enforced as written, it would be okay? Now, you seem to be suggesting that the concern is that police will not enforce it properly than it is about the law itself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by twista6002 View Post
And conveniently enough, this law also states towns can file suits against police departments if they feel they're not enforcing the law. This is one giant cluster of lawsuits and fecies waiting to explode.
Towns pay police departments to enforce the laws. This is a reaction against the fact that this has not been enforced for decades.

There probably will be several lawsuits over this law; I agree with you there.
 
Old 04-28-2010, 02:52 PM
 
9,742 posts, read 9,083,263 times
Reputation: 2049
Quote:
Originally Posted by db1025 View Post
you will be detained ANYWHERE by law enforcement if you fail to prove who you are. If you simply deny telling them, you will be arrested and charged with a crime.
The bolded is perfectly constitutional. See the SCOTUS case Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial District Court of Nevada

The only case I can see being made by opponents of the AZ law would entail reasonable suspicion. Asking for ID is lawful.
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