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Old 04-28-2010, 01:53 PM
 
Location: Northridge/Porter Ranch, Calif.
22,152 posts, read 26,628,616 times
Reputation: 6441

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Quote:
Originally Posted by twista6002 View Post
In a perfect world. In order for this law to be seriously put into use you and I both know the convo won't go like that. And conveniently enough, this law also states towns can file suits against police departments if they feel they're not enforcing the law. This is one giant cluster of lawsuits and fecies waiting to explode.
In a perfect world, there wouldn't be illegal aliens in the first place.

 
Old 04-28-2010, 01:56 PM
 
Location: Highland, CA (formerly Newark, NJ)
6,183 posts, read 4,783,308 times
Reputation: 2150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rggr View Post
So are you saying that if the law is enforced as written, it would be okay? Now, you seem to be suggesting that the concern is that police will not enforce it properly than it is about the law itself.
Because people are subject to unreasonable search and seizure with "probable cause". The only way to determine "probably cause" is to generalize and profile. You and I both know "no license plate, panicing" aren't viable probably causes.



Quote:
Towns pay police departments to enforce the laws. This is a reaction against the fact that this has not been enforced for decades.

There probably will be several lawsuits over this law; I agree with you there.
There are going to be a lot of lawsuits. No matter how hard they enforce even with profiling, the illegals will continue to return.
 
Old 04-28-2010, 01:57 PM
 
Location: Highland, CA (formerly Newark, NJ)
6,183 posts, read 4,783,308 times
Reputation: 2150
Quote:
Originally Posted by db1025 View Post
If DUI checkpoints are legal, then so is using checkpoints to find illegals. Case closed!
Comparing illegal immigrants to drunks. That's great thinking. Drunks have obvious physical probably cause. Outside of profiling and generalizing, illegal immigrants don't.
 
Old 04-28-2010, 01:59 PM
 
Location: Highland, CA (formerly Newark, NJ)
6,183 posts, read 4,783,308 times
Reputation: 2150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleet View Post
In a perfect world, there wouldn't be illegal aliens in the first place.
Two wrongs make a right. That's perfect right wing thinking!
 
Old 04-28-2010, 02:01 PM
 
470 posts, read 388,941 times
Reputation: 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvxplorer View Post
The bolded is perfectly constitutional. See the SCOTUS case Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial District Court of Nevada

The only case I can see being made by opponents of the AZ law would entail reasonable suspicion. Asking for ID is lawful.
Dude, like I said to other posters. The next time you are asked for ID tell the cop it is none of their business and see what happens. You will either be arrested for disorderly persons offense or you will be detained until you prove who you are.
 
Old 04-28-2010, 02:04 PM
 
10,543 posts, read 11,686,362 times
Reputation: 2797
Quote:
Originally Posted by twista6002 View Post
Because people are subject to unreasonable search and seizure with "probable cause". The only way to determine "probably cause" is to generalize and profile. You and I both know "no license plate, panicing" aren't viable probably causes.
Suspicious behavior is probable cause to ask questions and investigate further. That has been allowed in cases of all kinds for years. I'm sorry if you don't like it in this example.
 
Old 04-28-2010, 02:05 PM
 
470 posts, read 388,941 times
Reputation: 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by twista6002 View Post
Comparing illegal immigrants to drunks. That's great thinking. Drunks have obvious physical probably cause. Outside of profiling and generalizing, illegal immigrants don't.
you have no clue what you are even saying. Please tell me what the probable cause is when the ENTIRE lane of traffic is diverted to a stop where they check to see if you've been drinking and ask for your ID. Where was the probable cause for the stop to begin with? You have so lost this argument. Same thing applies to checking for illegals. Divert the entire lane of traffic and check everyone for possible DUI's AND citizenship. Citizenship is checked by showing them your DL, if you don't have a DL you have to tell them who you are, like what happens everyday in every state when dealing with law enforcement, if you refuse you will be detained, if you lie you will be arrested for giving false information.
 
Old 04-28-2010, 02:07 PM
 
Location: Florida
1,313 posts, read 1,337,976 times
Reputation: 462
Coming from one of the sponsors of a national id card (with WAY too much personal info on it), Graham doesn't carry a lot of credibility with him....
 
Old 04-28-2010, 02:11 PM
 
Location: Highland, CA (formerly Newark, NJ)
6,183 posts, read 4,783,308 times
Reputation: 2150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rggr View Post
Suspicious behavior is probable cause to ask questions and investigate further. That has been allowed in cases of all kinds for years. I'm sorry if you don't like it in this example.
And what exactly would "suspiscious" of someone being an illegal immigrant?
 
Old 04-28-2010, 02:13 PM
 
470 posts, read 388,941 times
Reputation: 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by twista6002 View Post
And what exactly would "suspiscious" of someone being an illegal immigrant?
The same things that would make a cop suspicious of anything else. Stop trying to make this something it is not.
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