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Old 04-28-2010, 10:24 AM
 
Location: Highland, CA (formerly Newark, NJ)
6,183 posts, read 4,779,686 times
Reputation: 2150

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Quote:
Originally Posted by AeroGuyDC View Post
Lidsey's pissed because Arizona just strong-armed the Federal Government into action. Arizona Patriots just forced the Federal Government to acknowledge its complete and abyssmal failure in handling illegal immigration.

Thank you AZ for calling out our inept politicians. I appreciate it.
Violation of the 4th amendment. Yea, Arizona lawmakers are some "patriots"

 
Old 04-28-2010, 10:24 AM
 
23,851 posts, read 19,146,946 times
Reputation: 9377
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rggr View Post
It seems to be lost on many that the law requires that police be engaged in "lawful contact" before asking about immigration status. That means that they have stopped you for violating a law not for having a particular skin tone. At that point, they need reasonable suspicion, and the law specifically states that race or ethnicity can't be the sole reason for suspicion.
Exactly. This forum has been laced with all kinds of half-truths regarding AZ's new law. Thank you for pointing this out.
 
Old 04-28-2010, 10:26 AM
 
470 posts, read 388,728 times
Reputation: 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by twista6002 View Post
In a DUI check, you get detained without ID because carrying your license when you're driving is the law. People who are "suspected" of being an illegal immigrant have to show working papers, not just an ID. You don't see how this will lead to profiling and billions and billions worth of lawsuits?
You are off base and are making up arguments just for the sake of it. You are wrong about the detaining because it is the law to have your DL on you. You only get a ticket for not having it, not detained. You get detained when you can't or will not prove who you are. Same thing applies in Arizona. Just stop it already.
 
Old 04-28-2010, 10:27 AM
 
23,851 posts, read 19,146,946 times
Reputation: 9377
Quote:
Originally Posted by twista6002 View Post
Violation of the 4th amendment. Yea, Arizona lawmakers are some "patriots"
Thank you to Judge Twista for citing who-knows-what legal precedent using who-knows-what legal training. Who needs the court system? We've got judge, attorney, and juror in one complete package right here on City Data.
 
Old 04-28-2010, 10:28 AM
 
Location: Highland, CA (formerly Newark, NJ)
6,183 posts, read 4,779,686 times
Reputation: 2150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rggr View Post
The law says that they have to have pulled you over for breaking another law (lawful contact) in order to ask.
Okay, let's say I'm driving erratically. I'm suspected of DUI. Cop pulls me over and asks for my license. I show it to him. Then he asks for my immigration papers. I was born in the US why should I need to? You really don't see how this will lead to profiling?
 
Old 04-28-2010, 10:31 AM
 
Location: Tampa Florida
22,243 posts, read 14,737,418 times
Reputation: 4583
Quote:
Originally Posted by db1025 View Post
are you really that brainwashed about this Arizona law? Nobody is going to be detained unless they have no ID on them to prove who they are. The same thing would apply in the DUI check, if you can't prove who you are, you will be detained. The 5 minutes you spoke about is all it will take for people in Arizona to show their ID's. It is exactly the same thing. I think you are purposely being deceitful about this because it is what partisan hacks do.
You do realize, as an American Citizen, you are not required to have an ID. A drivers license is a state requirement to allow you to drive, you don't have to drive, a Soc Sec card is required, most of the time, to work. You don't have to work. A birth certificate is something created at birth, how many people don't have a copy of that. There is no National ID card. Americans are given these rights, by the Constitution. If you want to go thru life, without any form of ID, you are free to do that. So, are you saying, that a police officer should have the authority to detain you for exercising your rights?
 
Old 04-28-2010, 10:32 AM
 
Location: Highland, CA (formerly Newark, NJ)
6,183 posts, read 4,779,686 times
Reputation: 2150
Basically anyone who gets caught urinating in public, throwing trash out their window and bumping music too loud is now subject to "prove you're an American" treatment from AZ law enforcement, a blatant violation of unreasonable search and seizure, per the 4th Amendment.
 
Old 04-28-2010, 10:32 AM
 
10,543 posts, read 11,682,359 times
Reputation: 2797
Quote:
Originally Posted by twista6002 View Post
Okay, let's say I'm driving erratically. I'm suspected of DUI. Cop pulls me over and asks for my license. I show it to him. Then he asks for my immigration papers. I was born in the US why should I need to? You really don't see how this will lead to profiling?
The law says that a valid drivers license is acceptable, so you would have no problem.
 
Old 04-28-2010, 10:33 AM
 
Location: Highland, CA (formerly Newark, NJ)
6,183 posts, read 4,779,686 times
Reputation: 2150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rggr View Post
The law says that a valid drivers license is acceptable, so you would have no problem.
What's to stop a cop from trying to put me through the ropes of proving I'm a legal citizen?
 
Old 04-28-2010, 10:34 AM
 
10,543 posts, read 11,682,359 times
Reputation: 2797
Quote:
Originally Posted by twista6002 View Post
Basically anyone who gets caught urinating in public, throwing trash out their window and bumping music too loud is now subject to "prove you're an American" treatment from AZ law enforcement, a blatant violation of unreasonable search and seizure, per the 4th Amendment.
If you do that and, on top of that, they have reasonable suspicion other than your skin tone or ethnicity then you would be subject to question. You have posted several points that are directly contradicted by the text of the law. You clearly have not read it or you don't care what it says.
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