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Old 04-28-2010, 05:57 PM
 
Location: Right where I want to be.
4,507 posts, read 7,825,943 times
Reputation: 3304

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Did you purposely NOT read your own post?

Quote:
A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR AGENCY OF THIS STATE OR A COUNTY CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THIS STATE MAY NOT SOLELY CONSIDER RACE, COLOR OR NATIONAL ORIGIN IN IMPLEMENTING THE REQUIREMENTS OF THIS SUBSECTION EXCEPT TO THE EXTENT PERMITTED BY THE UNITED STATES OR ARIZONA CONSTITUTION.
Quote:
FOR ANY LAWFUL CONTACT MADE BY A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR A LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY OF THIS STATE OR A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR A LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY OF A COUNTY, CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THIS STATE WHERE REASONABLE SUSPICION EXISTS THAT THE PERSON IS AN ALIEN
What do you think 'lawful contact' means? Why don't you read up on what the bill really means...right now you sound as foolish as Obama when describing the impact of the legislation.

Quote:
What fewer people have noticed is the phrase "lawful contact," which defines what must be going on before police even think about checking immigration status. "That means the officer is already engaged in some detention of an individual because he's violated some other law," says Kris Kobach, a University of Missouri Kansas City Law School professor who helped draft the measure. "The most likely context where this law would come into play is a traffic stop."
As far as "reasonable suspicion" is concerned, there is a great deal of case law dealing with the idea, but in immigration matters, it means a combination of circumstances that, taken together, cause the officer to suspect lawbreaking. It's not race -- Arizona's new law specifically says race and ethnicity cannot be the sole factors in determining a reasonable suspicion.
[LEFT]
Read more at the Washington Examiner: A carefully crafted immigration law in Arizona | Washington Examiner (http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/columns/Byron-York/A-carefully-crafted-immigration-law-in-Arizona-92136104.html#ixzz0mRUNliUV - broken link)
[/LEFT]

 
Old 04-28-2010, 05:58 PM
 
1,038 posts, read 1,031,486 times
Reputation: 265
Quote:
Originally Posted by renault View Post
Mexico will search only non-Mexicans whether they're legal citizens or not. God help you if you're not brown and don't speak spanish.

By the way, the AZ law is against illegal aliens, not legal citizens.
AZ law allows police to apply the law to anyone they suspect of being an illegal immigrant. If you cannot provide documentation you are presumed guilty. So if the cop stops you and you forgot your identification, you are presumed guilty.
 
Old 04-28-2010, 06:00 PM
 
Location: Here
10,833 posts, read 11,568,485 times
Reputation: 5928
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frozenyo View Post
"Reasonable Suspicion" is a code word for, do whatever the hell you want to include racial profiling...If it were anything else the term "probable cause" would've been used.
Paranoid much?
 
Old 04-28-2010, 06:01 PM
 
7,022 posts, read 5,773,713 times
Reputation: 6963
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holdencaulfield View Post
AZ law allows police to apply the law to anyone they suspect of being an illegal immigrant. If you cannot provide documentation you are presumed guilty. So if the cop stops you and you forgot your identification, you are presumed guilty.
Lolz. Wow, such paranoia. Presumed guilty of what exactly?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NCyank View Post
Did you purposely NOT read your own post?
Don't expect an answer from him. He's making up his own rules and laws, lol.
 
Old 04-28-2010, 06:06 PM
 
1,038 posts, read 1,031,486 times
Reputation: 265
Quote:
Originally Posted by NCyank View Post
Did you purposely NOT read your own post?

What do you think 'lawful contact' means? Why don't you read up on what the bill really means...right now you sound as foolish as Obama when describing the impact of the legislation.
I don't know what lawful contact means. Can you give me the legal definition. Not that I don't take your word for it, but I would like a link from a reputable source, sorry, no blogs or op ed pieces.
 
Old 04-28-2010, 06:09 PM
 
19,445 posts, read 13,191,189 times
Reputation: 4874
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holdencaulfield View Post
Not only can they search you without any crime being commited, they can use race, and get this, if you fail to provide identification, you are presumed guilty. Here is the text from the law

"FOR ANY LAWFUL CONTACT MADE BY A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR A LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY OF THIS STATE OR A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR A LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY OF A COUNTY, CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THIS STATE WHERE REASONABLE SUSPICION EXISTS THAT THE PERSON IS AN ALIEN WHO IS UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES, A REASONABLE ATTEMPT SHALL BE MADE, WHEN PRACTICABLE, TO DETERMINE THE IMMIGRATION STATUS OF THE PERSON EXCEPT IF THE DETERMINATION MAY HINDER OR OBSTRUCT AN INVESTIGATION PERSON WHO IS ARRESTED SHALL HAVE THE PERSON'S IMMIGRATION STATUS DETERMINED BEFORE THE PERSON IS RELEASED. THE PERSON'S IMMIGRATION STATUS SHALL BE VERIFIED WITH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT PURSUANT TO 8 UNITED STATES CODE SECTION A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR AGENCY OF THIS STATE OR A COUNTY CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THIS STATE MAY NOT SOLELY CONSIDER RACE, COLOR OR NATIONAL ORIGIN IN IMPLEMENTING THE REQUIREMENTS OF THIS SUBSECTION EXCEPT TO THE EXTENT PERMITTED BY THE UNITED STATES OR ARIZONA CONSTITUTION. A PERSON IS PRESUMED TO NOT BE AN ALIEN WHO IS UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES IF THE PERSON PROVIDES TO THE LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER OR AGENCY ANY OF THE FOLLOWING :

http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r/bills/sb1070h.pdf
It all depends on what definition the phrase "lawful contact" means. Does it mean the police need to be contacting you in the course of their duties as police officers while enforcing the law, such as pulling you over for a law violation, or arrest for a crime, or domestic abuse? I would say they prob need to clarify that part. I know what i think it means, but that does not matter.

I am pretty sure the AZ border guards can demand the identification of anyone who is within 25 miles of the border, and they do not need any reason to do so.
 
Old 04-28-2010, 06:11 PM
 
Location: TX
1,098 posts, read 1,540,319 times
Reputation: 590
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holdencaulfield View Post
I don't know what lawful contact means. Can you give me the legal definition. Not that I don't take your word for it, but I would like a link from a reputable source, sorry, no blogs or op ed pieces.
FOR ANY LAWFUL CONTACT MADE BY A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR A LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY OF THIS STATE OR A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR A LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY OF A COUNTY, CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THIS STATE WHERE REASONABLE SUSPICION EXISTS THAT THE PERSON IS AN ALIEN


Can you give a legal definition of the following words?
For
Any
Made
By
A
Or
Of
This
Exists
That
The
An


Not that I don't take your word for it, but I would like a link from a reputable source, sorry, no blogs or op ed pieces.
 
Old 04-28-2010, 06:11 PM
 
Location: southern california
55,237 posts, read 72,415,357 times
Reputation: 47455
you are quoting the rights of a citizen. bottom line your citizenship rights esp civil rights apply in your own country. this is not your country its ours. i would encourage you to return to mexico where your rights as a citizen are respected.
 
Old 04-28-2010, 06:12 PM
 
69,372 posts, read 53,608,091 times
Reputation: 9357
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holdencaulfield View Post
Not only can they search you without any crime being commited, they can use race, and get this, if you fail to provide identification, you are presumed guilty. Here is the text from the law
Which AGAIN, has already been deemed legal by the US Supreme Court.

How many threads do we need on the subject?
 
Old 04-28-2010, 06:14 PM
 
69,372 posts, read 53,608,091 times
Reputation: 9357
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holdencaulfield View Post
AZ law allows police to apply the law to anyone they suspect of being an illegal immigrant. If you cannot provide documentation you are presumed guilty. So if the cop stops you and you forgot your identification, you are presumed guilty.
And again, the Supreme Court has already said THATS FINE.

3 such examples.
]http://supct.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/03-5554.ZO.html[/SIZE][

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/fligh...hallenge_x.htm

And one dealing specifically with illegals
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cgi-bi...210&pageno=216
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