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Old 04-29-2010, 01:15 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hendu View Post
I don't agree with punishing a child for the crimes of their parent(s). A kid that is born here and resides here has more connection to this country than a country they have probably never even been to. Punish the parents. not the innocent kids.
So making children born from illegal alien parents the citizens of their parents homeland is punishing them? I don't believe in rewarding kids for the sins of their parents eitiher.
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Old 04-29-2010, 06:15 PM
 
Location: Exeter, NH
5,200 posts, read 4,205,839 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lmkcin View Post
Well according to the at little docuament aka the Constitution, anyone born on american soil is get this one, automatically a US citizen.

We do nothing they are here legally. They were never not here in the first place.
The Constitution? Are you referring Sections 301309 of the Immigration and Nationality Act (restated in sections 14011409 of Title 8 of the United States Code), current U.S. law defines...people born in most U.S. territories and possessions, as being "nationals and citizens of the United States at birth" (Winkipedia)?

At that time, the Country's Leadership was desperately trying to fill the vast frontier with a variety of people who would basically out-populate the competing immigrants from Countries like Spain and England. There were also periods in the Frontier era where we gave away land to those willing to immigrate and work the land.

Alas, the country is now (over) populated, and the resources can only be spread among so many citizens/residents. We have more than enough workers. Time to close the borders.
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Old 04-29-2010, 06:41 PM
 
Location: Chicago
926 posts, read 1,282,545 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
So making children born from illegal alien parents the citizens of their parents homeland is punishing them? I don't believe in rewarding kids for the sins of their parents eitiher.
How is potentially living the rest of their life being afraid that their whole family will be deported and they might be left alone a reward? I think people have a messed up view of how illegal immigrants or children of illegals live. They're at the margins of society at best and a lot of them are easy targets of criminals since they would never report it. It's a life that not any of us would want to live, for sure.

And yes, amending the Constitution solely to take away rights from kids who did nothing wrong...what other purpose is there but to punish them and keep a whole group of children out of schools, away from healthcare, etc. Kids are innocent in this mess.

Crack down on the people who committed the crime and especially their employers. I'm fine with that.
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Old 04-29-2010, 07:58 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,149,569 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hendu View Post
How is potentially living the rest of their life being afraid that their whole family will be deported and they might be left alone a reward? I think people have a messed up view of how illegal immigrants or children of illegals live. They're at the margins of society at best and a lot of them are easy targets of criminals since they would never report it. It's a life that not any of us would want to live, for sure.

And yes, amending the Constitution solely to take away rights from kids who did nothing wrong...what other purpose is there but to punish them and keep a whole group of children out of schools, away from healthcare, etc. Kids are innocent in this mess.

Crack down on the people who committed the crime and especially their employers. I'm fine with that.
You just don't get it, do you? No way should these illegal parents get to remain in our country just because they have U.S. born children. Mexico for one has dual citizenship therefore they are Mexican citizens also. You act like it would be punishing these kids by sending them back with their parents to the homeland that they are all citizens of. How so? If they choose to come back and live in the U.S. when they are 18 they so be it.

We need to crack down on both the employers and the illegal employees they are equally guilty.
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Old 04-29-2010, 08:06 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,711,508 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Little-Acorn View Post
What on Earth possessed those parents, to subject their own children to such a cruel choice? Are these people INHUMAN? How can they do that to their kids?

Now they are stuck with that choice - one they saw coming a long time ago. What are their plans? What did they intend to do with their kids, if/when the law caught up to them as they always knew it might?

The question is not, "What are we going to do with their kids?".

The question is, "What are THEY going to do about THEIR OWN kids?".
Because the sad truth is, many of these parents have zero use for these kids if they have to go back home. Many of these kids were conceived and birthed for the sole purpose of beating the immigration laws of the USA and of course to access our very generous welfare handouts.

It's a good question to ask why they won't take their own children back home with them when they go, but the answer is obvious. They don't really want these kids if they don't get something out of them.
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Old 04-29-2010, 08:16 PM
 
Location: Chicago
926 posts, read 1,282,545 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
You just don't get it, do you? No way should these illegal parents get to remain in our country just because they have U.S. born children. Mexico for one has dual citizenship therefore they are Mexican citizens also. You act like it would be punishing these kids by sending them back with their parents to the homeland that they are all citizens of. How so? If they choose to come back and live in the U.S. when they are 18 they so be it.

We need to crack down on both the employers and the illegal employees they are equally guilty.
You don't get it. They will only be sent back IF THEY ARE CAUGHT. In the meantime, the kids are supposed to live in limbo without access to education, healthcare, etc? I don't care what happens to the parents, or if they bring their kids back with them if they get caught, but we cannot create a permanent second class of people who were born here, grew up here and have never set foot in Mexico, El Salvador, wherever. And have never done anything wrong besides having the misfortune of being born to lawbreakers.

Also employers are more culpable since they are supposed to have loyalty to this country and its laws. I think we should expect a little bit more from a US citizen business owner than an uneducated migrant worker making less than the minimum wage.
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Old 04-29-2010, 08:20 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,711,508 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hendu View Post
You don't get it. They will only be sent back IF THEY ARE CAUGHT. In the meantime, the kids are supposed to live in limbo without access to education, healthcare, etc? I don't care what happens to the parents, or if they bring their kids back with them if they get caught, but we cannot create a permanent second class of people who were born here, grew up here and have never set foot in Mexico, El Salvador, wherever. And have never done anything wrong besides having the misfortune of being born to lawbreakers.

Also employers are more culpable since they are supposed to have loyalty to this country and its laws. I think we should expect a little bit more from a US citizen business owner than an uneducated migrant worker making less than the minimum wage.
Children should not be exploited by their own parents for the purpose of breaking laws.

What about the child whose mother uses him to shoplift from stores? Would you say the mothers doing that can't be prosecuted and sent to jail because by making shoplifting illegal some children used for this purpose live in fear their mother could go to jail and so be separated from her?
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Old 04-29-2010, 08:25 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,149,569 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hendu View Post
You don't get it. They will only be sent back IF THEY ARE CAUGHT. In the meantime, the kids are supposed to live in limbo without access to education, healthcare, etc? I don't care what happens to the parents, or if they bring their kids back with them if they get caught, but we cannot create a permanent second class of people who were born here, grew up here and have never set foot in Mexico, El Salvador, wherever. And have never done anything wrong besides having the misfortune of being born to lawbreakers.

Also employers are more culpable since they are supposed to have loyalty to this country and its laws. I think we should expect a little bit more from a US citizen business owner than an uneducated migrant worker making less than the minimum wage.
If their parents are too afraid to send their kids to school out of fear of being caught and deported then they should go back home and take their kids with them. There are schools in their homelands. Those kids cannot be used as blackmail for the parents to be able to stay here.

Kids adapt to change very well. I had to move across country a few times as a kid and even though it was within the same country every state is different and there are adjustments to make but kids do it well.

I am not going to play games by putting degrees of guilt on the employer vs the illegal employee. The point is that they both broke the law. You are trying to soften up the guilt on the part of the illegal alien and it just doesn't cut it. Uneducated or not, humans learn right from wrong at a very early age so don't use that as an excuse for them.
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Old 04-29-2010, 08:37 PM
 
412 posts, read 813,196 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TriMT7 View Post
There's actually a legal argument and fairly robust legal debate around the idea that "AND subject to the jurisdiction thereof" does not apply to children born to foreigners "visiting" the United States or here without consent of the US.
And what's the legal precedent?
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Old 04-29-2010, 08:44 PM
 
412 posts, read 813,196 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
Because the sad truth is, many of these parents have zero use for these kids if they have to go back home. Many of these kids were conceived and birthed for the sole purpose of beating the immigration laws of the USA and of course to access our very generous welfare handouts.

It's a good question to ask why they won't take their own children back home with them when they go, but the answer is obvious. They don't really want these kids if they don't get something out of them.
Where do come up with this stuff? They have "zero use" for their kids?
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