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Old 05-28-2010, 02:41 PM
 
1,150 posts, read 538,745 times
Reputation: 366
<< And just to remind you.. we can have the best president ever, but he will not be able to make law it has to go through both houses first.>>

That's true, but he certainly does have the authority to enforce existing laws, which is something no president has done for many years.
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Old 05-28-2010, 06:50 PM
 
47,586 posts, read 32,320,522 times
Reputation: 21463
Texas requires some sort of ID - birth certificate and social security number but there are many easy ways around those.

New Mexico only requires a matricula card issued by the Mexican government for ID and something that indicates residency. It is so easy for illegals to get drivers licenses in New Mexico, all they have to do is how up with some Mexican ID paper and if they don't have a way to show residency in that state, the clerks in the DL offices will suggest to them how to get it -- such as have their name on someone else's utility bill - for example and electric bill be placed in their name, they of course don't have to reside at that address. Then they are given the drivers license.
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Old 07-21-2010, 06:38 AM
 
1 posts, read 1,915 times
Reputation: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rggr View Post
The Arizona law states that any state issued ID is sufficient. It does not have to be a state that requires proof of citizenship for it to be accepted.
That is not true. The law states:
Quote:
A PERSON IS PRESUMED TO NOT BE AN
37 ALIEN WHO IS UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES IF THE PERSON
38 PROVIDES TO THE LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER OR AGENCY ANY OF THE FOLLOWING:
39 1. A VALID ARIZONA DRIVER LICENSE.
40 2. A VALID ARIZONA NONOPERATING IDENTIFICATION LICENSE.
41 3. A VALID TRIBAL ENROLLMENT CARD OR OTHER FORM OF TRIBAL
42 IDENTIFICATION.
43 4. IF THE ENTITY REQUIRES PROOF OF LEGAL PRESENCE IN THE UNITED
44 STATES BEFORE ISSUANCE, ANY VALID UNITED STATES FEDERAL, STATE OR LOCAL
45 GOVERNMENT ISSUED IDENTIFICATION.
[url]http://www.azleg.gov/alispdfs/council/SB1070-HB2162.PDF[/url]

Note that in #4 that it does to be an ID that required proof of citizenship to get. Further, a law enforcement agency in AZ that accepts an ID from a state that does not require proof of citizenship is opening themselves up to a lawsuit under 11-1051(H) and a fine of between $500 and $5,000 a day that such a policy remains in effect. That agency also may be liable for court costs and attorney fees under 11-1051(J). Therefore I would say that it is pretty unlikely that they will accept such ID.

I'm not aware of a list of state ID's they will and will not accept yet, but a cursory glance tells me that as of a few years ago the following states explicitly did not require proof of citizenship: HI, MD, MI, MT, NM, NC, OR, UT, WA, & WI. Unless the laws in those states have changed recently, citizens of those states would be wise to carry a passport or other proof of citizenship in the U.S. while traveling in AZ.

The following states do not explicitly require proof of citizenship, but by the documents they require for procuring the ID they may meet AZ's requirement: AK, DC, IN, IA, NV, NY, ND, TX, VT, & WV. Residents of these states may need to check with AZ authorities or carry a passport while in AZ to be on the safe side.

The following states have loopholes that could allow someone in this country illegally to procure a state ID: LA, ME, MA, NE, RI, & TN (for their driving certificate.) It is unknown how AZ law enforcement will treat ID's from these states.

Please note that this list is several years out of date, and it is possible that some of the states I have listed have tightened their requirements in the interim. Hopefully AZ will release a list of acceptable ID's in the near future before the law goes into effect so that one may rest assured that they can travel safely within the state.

Also, please note that the lack of a document proving one's citizenship is not actually a crime under the AZ law. They will hold you until they can prove your citizenship, then release you if you cannot produce acceptable proof. Typical experience in AZ shows this to generally be a 4-6 hour process, but there are fears that with the volume of people who may be affected by the new law, this time could go up considerably. Or not.

Happy traveling!
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Old 07-21-2010, 06:45 AM
 
Location: SouthCentral Texas
3,855 posts, read 2,348,345 times
Reputation: 926
Quote:
Originally Posted by KarmaPhx View Post
Regarding the SB1070, has anyone found a list of states that require proof of residency to issue identification?

Working in the hospitality industry we have been hearing a lot of mixed things regarding those who wish to travel here but have nothing more than a drivers license, and are concerned about not being able to prove citizenship if questioned.

We are looking for all the states whose ID would be enough to prove citizenship.

Thanks!
I know there are States that allow undocumented aliens to recieve State Driver's licences. I guess that is not a proof of citizenship. Most States and the US do not have a Identity card that can be used for citizenship status...And the US does not have a national Identity[citizen]card.
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Old 07-21-2010, 06:51 AM
 
Location: San Diego North County
4,805 posts, read 5,136,231 times
Reputation: 2959
Only seven states – Hawaii, Maine, Michigan, New Mexico, Oregon, Utah and Washington – allow illegal immigrants to get driver’s licenses.

In the 43 states which do not issue drivers licenses to illegal aliens, non-citizens must be legal green card holders to obtain a license.

Maine is currently under pressure by its populace to restrict drivers licenses to citizens and legal green card holders.
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Old 07-21-2010, 06:58 AM
 
Location: SouthCentral Texas
3,855 posts, read 2,348,345 times
Reputation: 926
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikey62 View Post
That is not true. The law states:

http://www.azleg.gov/alispdfs/council/SB1070-HB2162.PDF

Note that in #4 that it does to be an ID that required proof of citizenship to get. Further, a law enforcement agency in AZ that accepts an ID from a state that does not require proof of citizenship is opening themselves up to a lawsuit under 11-1051(H) and a fine of between $500 and $5,000 a day that such a policy remains in effect. That agency also may be liable for court costs and attorney fees under 11-1051(J). Therefore I would say that it is pretty unlikely that they will accept such ID.

I'm not aware of a list of state ID's they will and will not accept yet, but a cursory glance tells me that as of a few years ago the following states explicitly did not require proof of citizenship: HI, MD, MI, MT, NM, NC, OR, UT, WA, & WI. Unless the laws in those states have changed recently, citizens of those states would be wise to carry a passport or other proof of citizenship in the U.S. while traveling in AZ.

The following states do not explicitly require proof of citizenship, but by the documents they require for procuring the ID they may meet AZ's requirement: AK, DC, IN, IA, NV, NY, ND, TX, VT, & WV. Residents of these states may need to check with AZ authorities or carry a passport while in AZ to be on the safe side.

The following states have loopholes that could allow someone in this country illegally to procure a state ID: LA, ME, MA, NE, RI, & TN (for their driving certificate.) It is unknown how AZ law enforcement will treat ID's from these states.

Please note that this list is several years out of date, and it is possible that some of the states I have listed have tightened their requirements in the interim. Hopefully AZ will release a list of acceptable ID's in the near future before the law goes into effect so that one may rest assured that they can travel safely within the state.

Also, please note that the lack of a document proving one's citizenship is not actually a crime under the AZ law. They will hold you until they can prove your citizenship, then release you if you cannot produce acceptable proof. Typical experience in AZ shows this to generally be a 4-6 hour process, but there are fears that with the volume of people who may be affected by the new law, this time could go up considerably. Or not.

Happy traveling!
Quote:
The following states do not explicitly require proof of citizenship, but by the documents they require for procuring the ID they may meet AZ's requirement: AK, DC, IN, IA, NV, NY, ND, TX, VT, & WV. Residents of these states may need to check with AZ authorities or carry a passport while in AZ to be on the safe side.
Imagine that carry a passport in my own Country.


Quote:
Also, please note that the lack of a document proving one's citizenship is not actually a crime under the AZ law. They will hold you until they can prove your citizenship, then release you if you cannot produce acceptable proof. Typical experience in AZ shows this to generally be a 4-6 hour process,
I think a better assesment is that ICE will establish your immigration status. I dont know how long that process will take, but I've read that when using E-verify, the employer should wait 3-14 business days for results. Im being facetious of course on the 2 week wait but 4-6 hours is a little to long for me.

is it any wonder Constitutionalist are looking at Sb1070 closely.
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Old 07-21-2010, 07:03 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 5,677,290 times
Reputation: 2115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kele View Post
Only seven states – Hawaii, Maine, Michigan, New Mexico, Oregon, Utah and Washington – allow illegal immigrants to get driver’s licenses.

In the 43 states which do not issue drivers licenses to illegal aliens, non-citizens must be legal green card holders to obtain a license.

Maine is currently under pressure by its populace to restrict drivers licenses to citizens and legal green card holders.
Thanks for the list, Kele. I would like to know what Arizona cops will do if someone is stopped with a DL from any of those states. There must be some kind of criteria to be followed in this new law in regards to DL from those states. I wonder where we can find the answer to that?
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Old 07-21-2010, 11:20 AM
 
9,427 posts, read 6,834,055 times
Reputation: 2305
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikey62 View Post
That is not true. The law states:

http://www.azleg.gov/alispdfs/council/SB1070-HB2162.PDF

Note that in #4 that it does to be an ID that required proof of citizenship to get. Further, a law enforcement agency in AZ that accepts an ID from a state that does not require proof of citizenship is opening themselves up to a lawsuit under 11-1051(H) and a fine of between $500 and $5,000 a day that such a policy remains in effect. That agency also may be liable for court costs and attorney fees under 11-1051(J). Therefore I would say that it is pretty unlikely that they will accept such ID.

I'm not aware of a list of state ID's they will and will not accept yet, but a cursory glance tells me that as of a few years ago the following states explicitly did not require proof of citizenship: HI, MD, MI, MT, NM, NC, OR, UT, WA, & WI. Unless the laws in those states have changed recently, citizens of those states would be wise to carry a passport or other proof of citizenship in the U.S. while traveling in AZ.

The following states do not explicitly require proof of citizenship, but by the documents they require for procuring the ID they may meet AZ's requirement: AK, DC, IN, IA, NV, NY, ND, TX, VT, & WV. Residents of these states may need to check with AZ authorities or carry a passport while in AZ to be on the safe side.

The following states have loopholes that could allow someone in this country illegally to procure a state ID: LA, ME, MA, NE, RI, & TN (for their driving certificate.) It is unknown how AZ law enforcement will treat ID's from these states.

Please note that this list is several years out of date, and it is possible that some of the states I have listed have tightened their requirements in the interim. Hopefully AZ will release a list of acceptable ID's in the near future before the law goes into effect so that one may rest assured that they can travel safely within the state.

Also, please note that the lack of a document proving one's citizenship is not actually a crime under the AZ law. They will hold you until they can prove your citizenship, then release you if you cannot produce acceptable proof. Typical experience in AZ shows this to generally be a 4-6 hour process, but there are fears that with the volume of people who may be affected by the new law, this time could go up considerably. Or not.

Happy traveling!
Yes, you are correct about what the law says.
This law is still more lenient than the federal law. If you plan to go to Arizona and you plan to break the law, then you should be sure to have acceptable ID.
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Old 07-21-2010, 03:18 PM
 
Location: central Oregon
1,680 posts, read 925,962 times
Reputation: 1784
I thought Oregon had changed their policy and I found this:
Oregon DMV Required Identity Documentation for Driver License, Permit and ID Card Transactions

I found it odd that they NOW will take a laminated SS card, but a few years back I went in to get just an ID card and was told they would NOT take my SS card because it was laminated.
From reading this page I think illegals will have a hard time getting a license or ID card in Oregon now. (This page says it was updated today!)
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Old 07-21-2010, 03:20 PM
 
Location: central Oregon
1,680 posts, read 925,962 times
Reputation: 1784
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rggr View Post
Yes, you are correct about what the law says.
This law is still more lenient than the federal law. If you plan to go to Arizona and you plan to break the law, then you should be sure to have acceptable ID.
Makes me happy that I have held on to my AZ ID card that I got in 2001. It never expires so I can use it forever.
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