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Old 04-30-2010, 10:03 AM
Status: "Make America the Great Joke Again" (set 26 days ago)
 
Location: Denver
9,064 posts, read 15,477,439 times
Reputation: 5288

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Unfortunately, everything listed, with the exception of freezing company assets, has been vehemently opposed by pro-illegals and Hispanic advocacy groups. States proposing the denial of benefits or services to illegal aliens have been accused of discrimination and racism.
See that's the thing, this country is too diverse to be racist in any form. So whatever is done, it needs to be universally applicable as to not exclude a particular group.

I look at it like a large corporation reducing its workforce. They have to be smart about it, they cannot fire 1000 people that are all black or asian or hispanic or white. That would look like bad policy.

So far states like Arizona and Oklahoma have no tact, they aren't planning their rules smartly at all. They are using a machete when they should be using a scalpel.
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Old 04-30-2010, 10:18 AM
 
Location: South Bay Native
13,050 posts, read 21,175,320 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach50 View Post
See that's the thing, this country is too diverse to be racist in any form. So whatever is done, it needs to be universally applicable as to not exclude a particular group.
No particular group was excluded from the AZ law. It is to be applied in order to root out any illegals, regardless of what "group(s)" they belong to. People in the country legally should have no problem with the law.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach50 View Post
I look at it like a large corporation reducing its workforce. They have to be smart about it, they cannot fire 1000 people that are all black or asian or hispanic or white. That would look like bad policy.
So, should AZ import illegals from other states that are from countries other than Mexico, and pretend they found them in AZ, so as not to give the appearance that only Mexicans are being rounded up? Let's face it - AZ is a border state, and most of the illegals in AZ are Mexican. I'm sure the few token illegals in AZ from African, Asian, and European nations are subject to the law too - and if LE finds any of them, I suspect they will be handled no differently than the ones from SOB.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach50 View Post
So far states like Arizona and Oklahoma have no tact, they aren't planning their rules smartly at all. They are using a machete when they should be using a scalpel.
Please apply the "using the scalpel" to practical terms - I want to know how you see this could be done more cleverly.
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Old 04-30-2010, 10:21 AM
Status: "Make America the Great Joke Again" (set 26 days ago)
 
Location: Denver
9,064 posts, read 15,477,439 times
Reputation: 5288
Quote:
Originally Posted by DontH8Me View Post
No particular group was excluded from the AZ law. It is to be applied in order to root out any illegals, regardless of what "group(s)" they belong to. People in the country legally should have no problem with the law.



So, should AZ import illegals from other states that are from countries other than Mexico, and pretend they found them in AZ, so as not to give the appearance that only Mexicans are being rounded up? Let's face it - AZ is a border state, and most of the illegals in AZ are Mexican. I'm sure the few token illegals in AZ from African, Asian, and European nations are subject to the law too - and if LE finds any of them, I suspect they will be handled no differently than the ones from SOB.



Please apply the "using the scalpel" to practical terms - I want to know how you see this could be done more cleverly.
What I would do is avoid taking the 'group' per se head on. I would tackle the sources which allow the group to flourish.

Using the Scalpel metaphorically, I would cut around the group, removing life lines, cash flow, etc. Thus to not draw direct contact with any certain group. Thus avoiding all claims of racism.
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Old 04-30-2010, 10:25 AM
Status: "Make America the Great Joke Again" (set 26 days ago)
 
Location: Denver
9,064 posts, read 15,477,439 times
Reputation: 5288
Recall the problems in the wording of SB1070, allowing a police officer to arrest anyone who behaves or has reasonable cause of being in the country illegally.

Well how is that determined if not by race? Since most illegals are Mexican like you said? That is the problem with the law, pragmatically it cannot be applied in AZ without using race as a primary indicator, unless everyone is going to be treated as an illegal.
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Old 04-30-2010, 10:26 AM
 
2,930 posts, read 6,029,342 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nvxplorer View Post
I read many posts stating, "There are better ways to tackle illegal immigration." What are these ways? Before anyone says target the employers, let me remind you that such measures have been criticized as "racist" and "anti-family" here in Northern Nevada, and in other places I'm sure.

Give me a "better way" that won't be criticized as being racist, anti-family or anti-immigrant.
I would whatever is necessary but taking into account that some of things proposed might create greater social problems.

I would do this:

1. Amend the 14th amendment to deny anchor babies citizenship until they turn 18th.

2. Deny social services to illegals, except emergency care, and if so deport them once they are out of the hospital. Deny food stamps and any kind of cash assistance.

3. I would keep the free education with free breakfast lunches. I do not agree with anything that affects children as they cannot provide for themselves. There will always be an amount of illegals in this country. If we deny education to anchor or illegal children, these children will stay home alone, uneducated probably becoming future criminals.

4. Enforce current laws or create a national ID card and closely monitor tax returns. Many of the businesses that hire illegals are large corporations.

I know many people don't agree, I don't care. I know some people out there are so ethnocentric that they could care less if children are abused or starved. If their parents decide to stay then feed them in the schools, but don't go after their parents because then, they won't register those kids, and trust me they will stay here and children will be abused. I hate child abuse weather they are American or not.
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Old 04-30-2010, 10:40 AM
 
Location: South Bay Native
13,050 posts, read 21,175,320 times
Reputation: 22525
Quote:
Originally Posted by ♥♥PRINC3Ss♥♥ View Post
I would whatever is necessary but taking into account that some of things proposed might create greater social problems.

I would do this:

1. Amend the 14th amendment to deny anchor babies citizenship until they turn 18th.

2. Deny social services to illegals, except emergency care, and if so deport them once they are out of the hospital. Deny food stamps and any kind of cash assistance.

3. I would keep the free education with free breakfast lunches. I do not agree with anything that affects children as they cannot provide for themselves. There will always be an amount of illegals in this country. If we deny education to anchor or illegal children, these children will stay home alone, uneducated probably becoming future criminals.

4. Enforce current laws or create a national ID card and closely monitor tax returns. Many of the businesses that hire illegals are large corporations.

I know many people don't agree, I don't care. I know some people out there are so ethnocentric that they could care less if children are abused or starved. If their parents decide to stay then feed them in the schools, but don't go after their parents because then, they won't register those kids, and trust me they will stay here and children will be abused. I hate child abuse weather they are American or not.
I would have no problem with most of these points - and I agree about the children as well. I for one can guarantee that most if not all of these points would be highly criticized in my home state by special interest groups but the general population would definitely have no problem with.

It's folks like Murguia and her minions who make the most noise while the rest of the population (the silent majority) is never heard.
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Old 04-30-2010, 10:49 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,821,083 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by DontH8Me View Post
I would have no problem with most of these points - and I agree about the children as well. I for one can guarantee that most if not all of these points would be highly criticized in my home state by special interest groups but the general population would definitely have no problem with.

It's folks like Murguia and her minions who make the most noise while the rest of the population (the silent majority) is never heard.
Which is precisely why the status quo is alive and well. EVERY measure intended to mitigate this problem is summarily shot down by La Raza, the IA-CLU, et al. as being racially motivated and anti-immigrant.
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Old 04-30-2010, 12:34 PM
 
Location: South Bay Native
13,050 posts, read 21,175,320 times
Reputation: 22525
What happens whenever talk of securing/closing off the border comes up:

Mexico's Calderon: Border Fence a 'Grave Mistake'
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Old 04-30-2010, 01:05 PM
 
470 posts, read 388,911 times
Reputation: 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach50 View Post
What I would do is avoid taking the 'group' per se head on. I would tackle the sources which allow the group to flourish.

Using the Scalpel metaphorically, I would cut around the group, removing life lines, cash flow, etc. Thus to not draw direct contact with any certain group. Thus avoiding all claims of racism.
So you think denying welfare and any other lifeline support isn't targeting a certain group but checking for ID is? How in the world do you come up with that? The second something like that is implemented, the left will be screaming racism and discrimination from the rooftops louder than they are now..
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Old 04-30-2010, 01:08 PM
 
470 posts, read 388,911 times
Reputation: 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach50 View Post
Recall the problems in the wording of SB1070, allowing a police officer to arrest anyone who behaves or has reasonable cause of being in the country illegally.

Well how is that determined if not by race? Since most illegals are Mexican like you said? That is the problem with the law, pragmatically it cannot be applied in AZ without using race as a primary indicator, unless everyone is going to be treated as an illegal.
Mexican is not a race. Hispanic is. There could be other races that are Mexican residents that are trying to come over here too. Let me ask you something, have you ever watched the TV show COPS? Didn't you ever see them just roll up on someone sitting there minding their business and they ask them for ID and ask them what they are doing there becasue the cops determined there was something suspicious about that particular person? It happens every day. Feel like marching in the streets for these people as well?
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