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Old 05-02-2010, 10:01 AM
 
19,183 posts, read 27,744,233 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huckleberry3911948 View Post
AZ and others states that follow suit are right and morally correct in doing so. the federal government has been shamelessly negligent in enforcing its own laws.
The federal government (lately on account of a bunch of whackjob right-wingers) has been shamelessly negligent in bringing its now long outdated and dysfunctional immigration laws into any sort of conformance with the reality of the situation that they purport to control. The "immigration problem" is a problem with the law, not a problem with the immigrants.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Huckleberry3911948 View Post
ps the outrage is that the feds are attempting to suppress states rights. my my since 1862 not much has changed has it. the federal government has a nasty habit of punishing people for defending themselves.
Here is a bulletin: The Civil War is over. Your side lost. On the battlefield and everywhere else that it was fought. You don't have the rights that you imagine yourself to have, and you never did.

Last edited by saganista; 05-02-2010 at 11:01 AM..
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Old 05-02-2010, 10:19 AM
 
638 posts, read 1,003,485 times
Reputation: 409
We often hear from the MSM, illegal immigration supporters, and liberals in general, that illegal immigration is a victimless crime.

Tell that to the relatives of the following victims:

Mary Nagle, a wife and mother of two, who was raped and murdered by an illegal alien who came to her home to power wash her porch. If that wasn't bad enough, the perpetrator used Mary Nagle's own cell phone to call her sisters and friends describing how he sexually abused her. Read about the tragic story here and here.

The two Catholic nuns who were on a walk saying their rosary when they were attacked by illegal alien Maximilano Esparza who raped both and killed one by strangling her with her rosary beads.

Terry and Lisa Dilks of Urbandale, Iowa, who were murdered by two illegal aliens. Both perpetrators had previously been arrested on drug charges and turned over and subsequently released by federal immigration agents.

The 10 killed and 4 wounded victims of illegal alien Muslim fanatic and sniper John Lee Malvo.

Kimberley Hope who was killed while feeding her neighbor's dogs by illegal alien Daniel Gonzalez Berumen who simply wanted her car.

Vinessa Hoera was a young single mom, only 23, when she was kidnapped, raped and brutally murdered by an illegal alien from Guatemala.

Tracy Owen, a 23 year old, very pregnant woman of Nashville, who was murdered because a couple of drunk, illegal aliens thought they had struck her in a car-pedestrian traffic accident. In fact, they had not but shot her five times believing they had.

Norfolk Police Officer Sheila Herring who was shot by illegal alien Mario Roberto Keen as she responded to a disturbance at a sports bar. Keen had previously been sentenced to five years in prison in 1990 for selling cocaine and had been previously deported. Keen attempted to re-enter the United States in New York in 1997, but was reportedly barred from entering. Obviously, he found another way.

Officer Tony Zeppetella, 27, of the Oceanside, CA, police department, was murdered by illegal alien gang member Adrien George Camacho when he stopped him for a traffic violation. Camacho pulled out a gun and shot the officer. Camacho then pistol-whipped the injured officer before shooting him again, killing him with the officer's own gun. At the time, Camacho had a criminal history that includes five previous felony convictions had been previously deported several times.

Fort Worth Officer Dwayne Freeto was killed by drunken driver while helping a stranded motorist. The speeding car struck Freeto's parked cruiser, causing it to burst into flames burning Officer Freeto to death.

Police Officer Brandon Winfield, a 12-year veteran on the Houston police force with five children who was killed by illegal alien Juan Leonardo Qunitero who had been previously deported for molesting a 12-year-old girl. Officer Winfield thought he was assisting a disabled motorist when he was murdered in cold blood.

For more cops killed by illegal aliens go to Officer Down News – although you will have to do some digging to establish the residency of the perpetrator.

And those are just a few of the Americans who recently died at the hands of illegal aliens.

Now, I don't know about you but the numbers are what the numbers are....the Federal Government (Clinton (D), Bush (R), and Obama (S)) have all neglected the borders as have their predecessors. This is not a polarizing Republican/Democrat/Socialist/Libertarian issue. This is about saving our country. The amount of money illegals cost the American taxpayer in services, crime, prison system, etc, etc, etc, etc, is ASTOUNDING. The Federal Government has not done the job of securing our country which is the FIRST duty they have. When they fail to enforce their own laws, and a state like Arizona is getting run over, what the hell do you expect them to do????? I read the other day that there were 350 home invasion robberies in Phoenix last year. That is an AMAZINGLY high number. I would venture a guess that even New York City doesn't have proportionally the same amount of home invasions. There are estimates that illegals are responsible for over 50 % of the violent crime in Arizona. How long can Arizonal sit there and watch their citizens get torn apart while the Feds sit on their arses???
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Old 05-02-2010, 10:35 AM
 
Location: Arizona
5,396 posts, read 6,917,522 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkeye2009 View Post
I find it interesting that non-citizens of Arizona are "outraged". If you are not a citizen of Arizona, did it ever occur to you that perhaps this is an issue to be decided by citizens of Arizona.
I in turn find it interesting that non-citizens of Arizona are "cheerleading" this bill when they do not have to suffer any of the financial fall out of actually trying to enact it.

I am glad that already many executive leaders and police authorities and local business leaders in Arizona are already pointing out the impossibility of its implementaiton and the negative economic consequences this will have on the state. Some voices of reason breaking through the toxic mist of political BSing going on.
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Old 05-02-2010, 10:37 AM
 
19,183 posts, read 27,744,233 times
Reputation: 4000
Quote:
Originally Posted by SgtAJC View Post
We often hear from the MSM, illegal immigration supporters, and liberals in general, that illegal immigration is a victimless crime.
Tell that to the relatives of the following victims:
By the completely absurd logic that you propose here, we should start first by cracking down on legal immigrants and natural born citizens, a group that has just as and even more horribly perpetrated a VASTLY greater number of crimes against the rest of us than have illegal immigrants.

I'm not even going to go into the statistics on horrific crimes committed by people who are less than 5'9" tall, or perhaps worst of all, the unabating and unavenged rampage that has long been conducted by people who at one time or another have eaten a tomato...

Last edited by saganista; 05-02-2010 at 11:01 AM..
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Old 05-02-2010, 10:38 AM
 
Location: Sango, TN
24,889 posts, read 20,314,353 times
Reputation: 8606
Quote:
Originally Posted by SgtAJC View Post
We often hear from the MSM, illegal immigration supporters, and liberals in general, that illegal immigration is a victimless crime.

Tell that to the relatives of the following victims:

Mary Nagle, a wife and mother of two, who was raped and murdered by an illegal alien who came to her home to power wash her porch. If that wasn't bad enough, the perpetrator used Mary Nagle's own cell phone to call her sisters and friends describing how he sexually abused her. Read about the tragic story here and here.

The two Catholic nuns who were on a walk saying their rosary when they were attacked by illegal alien Maximilano Esparza who raped both and killed one by strangling her with her rosary beads.

Terry and Lisa Dilks of Urbandale, Iowa, who were murdered by two illegal aliens. Both perpetrators had previously been arrested on drug charges and turned over and subsequently released by federal immigration agents.

The 10 killed and 4 wounded victims of illegal alien Muslim fanatic and sniper John Lee Malvo.

Kimberley Hope who was killed while feeding her neighbor's dogs by illegal alien Daniel Gonzalez Berumen who simply wanted her car.

Vinessa Hoera was a young single mom, only 23, when she was kidnapped, raped and brutally murdered by an illegal alien from Guatemala.

Tracy Owen, a 23 year old, very pregnant woman of Nashville, who was murdered because a couple of drunk, illegal aliens thought they had struck her in a car-pedestrian traffic accident. In fact, they had not but shot her five times believing they had.

Norfolk Police Officer Sheila Herring who was shot by illegal alien Mario Roberto Keen as she responded to a disturbance at a sports bar. Keen had previously been sentenced to five years in prison in 1990 for selling cocaine and had been previously deported. Keen attempted to re-enter the United States in New York in 1997, but was reportedly barred from entering. Obviously, he found another way.

Officer Tony Zeppetella, 27, of the Oceanside, CA, police department, was murdered by illegal alien gang member Adrien George Camacho when he stopped him for a traffic violation. Camacho pulled out a gun and shot the officer. Camacho then pistol-whipped the injured officer before shooting him again, killing him with the officer's own gun. At the time, Camacho had a criminal history that includes five previous felony convictions had been previously deported several times.

Fort Worth Officer Dwayne Freeto was killed by drunken driver while helping a stranded motorist. The speeding car struck Freeto's parked cruiser, causing it to burst into flames burning Officer Freeto to death.

Police Officer Brandon Winfield, a 12-year veteran on the Houston police force with five children who was killed by illegal alien Juan Leonardo Qunitero who had been previously deported for molesting a 12-year-old girl. Officer Winfield thought he was assisting a disabled motorist when he was murdered in cold blood.

For more cops killed by illegal aliens go to Officer Down News although you will have to do some digging to establish the residency of the perpetrator.

And those are just a few of the Americans who recently died at the hands of illegal aliens.

Now, I don't know about you but the numbers are what the numbers are....the Federal Government (Clinton (D), Bush (R), and Obama (S)) have all neglected the borders as have their predecessors. This is not a polarizing Republican/Democrat/Socialist/Libertarian issue. This is about saving our country. The amount of money illegals cost the American taxpayer in services, crime, prison system, etc, etc, etc, etc, is ASTOUNDING. The Federal Government has not done the job of securing our country which is the FIRST duty they have. When they fail to enforce their own laws, and a state like Arizona is getting run over, what the hell do you expect them to do????? I read the other day that there were 350 home invasion robberies in Phoenix last year. That is an AMAZINGLY high number. I would venture a guess that even New York City doesn't have proportionally the same amount of home invasions. There are estimates that illegals are responsible for over 50 % of the violent crime in Arizona. How long can Arizonal sit there and watch their citizens get torn apart while the Feds sit on their arses???

According to FBI statistics, violent crimes reported in Arizona dropped by nearly 1,500 reported incidents between 2005 and 2008. Reported property crimes also fell, from about 287,000 reported incidents to 279,000 in the same period. These decreases are accentuated by the fact that Arizona's population grew by 600,000 between 2005 and 2008.
According to the nonpartisan Immigration Policy Institute, proponents of the bill "overlook two salient points: Crime rates have already been falling in Arizona for years despite the presence of unauthorized immigrants, and a century's worth of research has demonstrated that immigrants are less likely to commit crimes or be behind bars than the native-born."

Crime stats test rationale behind Arizona immigration law - CNN.com

As awful as what you talked about earlier is, crime rates have steadily fallen from 2005 until today, in Arizona, despite the large influx of illegals.

No doubt something needs to be done about immigration, but taking away the rights of citizens, and making police enforce a racial profiling bill, is wrong.

When the wording in SB1070 is redone, as the AZ legislature and Gov have already said they are working on, I'll support the bill.

As it is today, its to broad in its terms, gives police to much power, and invites racial profiling.
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Old 05-02-2010, 11:05 AM
 
19,183 posts, read 27,744,233 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis1979 View Post
According to the nonpartisan Immigration Policy Institute, proponents of the bill "overlook two salient points: Crime rates have already been falling in Arizona for years despite the presence of unauthorized immigrants, and a century's worth of research has demonstrated that immigrants are less likely to commit crimes or be behind bars than the native-born."
I wonder if such news has yet had time to reach some of those out there in fly-over country. It's only been a century so far, after all...
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Old 05-02-2010, 11:37 AM
 
Location: Sierra Vista, AZ
16,116 posts, read 20,155,449 times
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OK, what do we do with 460,000 prisoners. You've charged them with a crime under the new law and they have no money. Each will need a hearing, none can make bail or pay the fine.
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Old 05-02-2010, 03:41 PM
 
1,650 posts, read 3,365,950 times
Reputation: 1121
[quote=dorock99;13989513]


We know a large portion work at reduces wages, which has the effect of raising margins, for farmers, construction companies, and other industries that employ these individuals. We can agree whoever hires an illegal at a reduced wage is raising their margin and thus gaining higher, net income, contributing to higher tax payments to the state.

This has the effect of raising profits before taxes, which has the effect of generating higher tax revenue for the state. What is the value of this positive benefit and how much have illegals benefited companies in Arizona in terms of real dollars?

Even at the federal level illegal immigrants benefit tax payers, because they are not counted as citizens, the amount in wages they earn, which is often very small would make them eligible for all sorts of tax breaks and refunds, so from a federal level, there is a crap load of subsidies saved from illegals who work. (just thought of that one)

The question you should be asking yourself as well as Arizonians is what is the cost benefit and is there a much more effective cheaper way to enforce the law and also benefit the general population?

How much lost additional tax revenue will be lost by companies employing them at cheap labor? How much productivity will this cost the State of Arizona? How much sales tax revenue will be lost, because of wasting tax payer money jailing someone that works and contributes to the local economy?
QUOTE]

It really makes me angry that people support illegals working in this country when there are 15 million unemployed, LAW ABIDING citizens in this country who can't find a job. Some have been stuck on unemployment for two years and are at risk for losing their only lifeline to feed their families. I think 1070 will help lower the unemployment rate in AZ. For example, in AZ, you can only make $265 a week max in unemployment benefits. A regular minimum wage job would at least pay $280. Most out-of-work, law abiding Arizonans would prefer the minimum wage job. Yet, AZ has unemployment rate of 9.7% and a U6 rate of 18.1%. Many law abiding, Arizonans can't find a minimum wage job and have even moved north to be able to work. Why are so many minimum wage jobs unavailable in AZ? Well, the illegals take them of course.

Just a few weeks ago, Sheriff Joe conducted a raid on several different grocery stores because they were employing illegal immigrants. The next day, hundreds of unemployed, law-abiding Americans showed up to apply for those jobs.

I am so sick and tired of people feeling sorry for these law breakers. My gosh, we have Americans who can't find jobs and we actually want 12 million law breakers to be able to work in this country. We have Americans who are starving and relying on food banks for help. Food stamps aren't that easy to get. We have American children who can't afford health care, yet an illegal can get healthcare for free. We have Americans who have been forced out of their homes because of the bad economy. We have Americans who are going to lose their unemployment benefits and the ability to pay their bills because we are allowing millions of law breakers to have jobs.
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Old 05-02-2010, 04:43 PM
 
638 posts, read 1,003,485 times
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If enforcing the Federal Bill means it is a "racist" bill then I guess the Federal bill is also flawed. Crime is dropping all over the country, not just Arizona, as technological and innovative police work is succeeding. The bottom line, that cannot be disputed, is that illegals are costing this country BILLIONS in services. Period, end of story. They are here ILLEGALLY, that means they VIOLATED our LAWS to get here. Are we going to pick and choose what crimes to enforce??? Child Molestation okay if it's in the same family?? Check fraud okay if "they really needed the money"?? Assault okay if the assaultee is a Republican?? C'mon people...this law would NOT have been enacted had the federal government done what they should have been doing ALL along and protecting our northern and southern borders. Raise my taxes to secure the borders and keep AMERICAN citizens safe....that I'm okay with......Raise my taxes for a Health Care Bill that we needed as QUICKLY as possible, but on closer inspection smells like shyte (without reducing cost, in fact now they are saying costs will SKYROCKET!!!) that I'm not okay with.......
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Old 05-02-2010, 04:45 PM
 
19,183 posts, read 27,744,233 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluebelt1234 View Post
It really makes me angry that people support illegals working in this country when there are 15 million unemployed, LAW ABIDING citizens in this country who can't find a job...
There are currently about 300,000 people unemployed in Arizona, where about 100,000 would be even in boom times. What you seem to want to do is round up and get rid of about 500,000 people so that 200,000 people can take their minimum wage jobs until such time as the economy improves and they can move back up into their old sort of jobs again, leaving no one at all to do any of the minimum wage jobs. Is that about it? Does that sound like it would be the best possible approach to the problem?
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