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Old 05-02-2010, 04:57 PM
 
Location: Northridge/Porter Ranch, Calif.
22,152 posts, read 26,620,787 times
Reputation: 6441

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis1979 View Post
According to FBI statistics, violent crimes reported in Arizona dropped by nearly 1,500 reported incidents between 2005 and 2008. Reported property crimes also fell, from about 287,000 reported incidents to 279,000 in the same period. These decreases are accentuated by the fact that Arizona's population grew by 600,000 between 2005 and 2008.
According to the nonpartisan Immigration Policy Institute, proponents of the bill "overlook two salient points: Crime rates have already been falling in Arizona for years despite the presence of unauthorized immigrants, and a century's worth of research has demonstrated that immigrants are less likely to commit crimes or be behind bars than the native-born."

Crime stats test rationale behind Arizona immigration law - CNN.com

As awful as what you talked about earlier is, crime rates have steadily fallen from 2005 until today, in Arizona, despite the large influx of illegals.

No doubt something needs to be done about immigration, but taking away the rights of citizens, and making police enforce a racial profiling bill, is wrong.

When the wording in SB1070 is redone, as the AZ legislature and Gov have already said they are working on, I'll support the bill.

As it is today, its to broad in its terms, gives police to much power, and invites racial profiling.
One violent crime by an illegal alien is too much. Especially considering the illegal alien shouldn't be here in the first place.
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Old 05-02-2010, 04:58 PM
 
19,183 posts, read 27,744,233 times
Reputation: 4000
Quote:
Originally Posted by SgtAJC View Post
The bottom line, that cannot be disputed, is that illegals are costing this country BILLIONS in services.
Legals cost much, much more, and both groups contribute to society more than what they cost.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SgtAJC View Post
They are here ILLEGALLY, that means they VIOLATED our LAWS to get here. Are we going to pick and choose what crimes to enforce??? Child Molestation okay if it's in the same family?? Check fraud okay if "they really needed the money"?? Assault okay if the assaultee is a Republican??
Which one of those is a status crime? None. How about we wait until an immigrant, whether documented or undocumented, actually commits some sort of crime against a person or property before we start lumping them in with the millions of others who do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SgtAJC View Post
C'mon people...this law would NOT have been enacted had the federal government done what they should have been doing ALL along...
A bipartisan proposal for normalization of immigration laws was put forward in 2007. A bunch of right-wing howlers succeeded in getting it killed. It was THEY who assured that the status quo would be what it is today, not the federal government.
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Old 05-02-2010, 05:02 PM
 
Location: Sango, TN
24,889 posts, read 20,314,353 times
Reputation: 8606
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleet View Post
One violent crime by an illegal alien is too much. Especially considering the illegal alien shouldn't be here in the first place.
Yes,

But when the basis of your argument is "We need laws that racial profile, because illegals are committing so many crimes" and the actual crime statistics completely refute that premise,

it needs to be pointed out.

Again, I am not pro illegal, I want them gone. I don't favor amnesty, I don't favor doing nothing. However, I also don't favor laws that will restrict the movements of my fellow citizens, and I don't want states making their own immigration laws, and I don't want laws that could be used against me later, to restrict my freedom.

So, if you want to do something about illegal immigration, I'm all for it. As long as its within the confines of our legally established Constitution.
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Old 05-02-2010, 05:39 PM
 
Location: Arizona
5,396 posts, read 6,917,522 times
Reputation: 1197
Quote:
Originally Posted by saganista View Post
There are currently about 300,000 people unemployed in Arizona, where about 100,000 would be even in boom times. What you seem to want to do is round up and get rid of about 500,000 people so that 200,000 people can take their minimum wage jobs until such time as the economy improves and they can move back up into their old sort of jobs again, leaving no one at all to do any of the minimum wage jobs. Is that about it? Does that sound like it would be the best possible approach to the problem?
And the 300,000 are not going to be lining up to be dishwashers and hotel maids. There will end up being a lot of dirty dishes and bedsheets stacking up.
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Old 05-02-2010, 07:19 PM
 
9 posts, read 3,552 times
Reputation: 15
Nobody said that enforcinng our immigration laws would be easy or economical, especially after neglecting them for so long.

Merely that it's the right thing to do.
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Old 05-03-2010, 09:37 AM
 
1,317 posts, read 1,184,909 times
Reputation: 285
Quote:
Originally Posted by Little-Acorn View Post
Take away the lies about AZ immigration law, and liberals will have nothing to say about it at all.

It’s amazing how many flat-out falsehoods the pro-illegal-immigrant advocates are telling about the new Arizona law.
Obviously learned from the checklist of the Conservative Rules of Smear and Distortion Operations against democrats and others who don't follow the party line.
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Old 05-03-2010, 09:46 AM
 
31,385 posts, read 31,062,067 times
Reputation: 14878
Funny how left wing lies, resulted in amending the more offensive portions of the bill. If those lies were lies, I suspect that amending those offensive portions would not have been necessary.
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Old 05-03-2010, 09:49 AM
 
470 posts, read 388,852 times
Reputation: 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
Well this liberal has quite a bit to say and not one word of it will be anything approaching a lie.


FALSEHOOD: Liberals have not stated that Arizona police can now walk up to anybody and demand, “Your papers, please!”

What liberals say and the law allows is for any police officer who during a legal contact with a person, when presented with "reasonable cause" to suspect that they are illegal, can demand proof of legal status.

What we liberals argue is that the definition of "reasonable cause" is so broad as to in effect, allow the police to employ racial profiling, and to use the flimsiest context to construct "reasonable cause". And while the law, in part forbids "racial profiling" by stating that race cannot be used as the sole basis for establishing probable cause, in the real world, I am dying to know how it will be avoided.

FALSEHOOD: This isn't a liberal argument, it is a law enforcement argument based upon the real world knowledge that much need cooperation from the community is needed to report and act as witnesses to crimes. If the community fears that they will be subject to questions regarding their legal status, the fear of law enforcement is that they will cease to cooperate.

NOT A FALSEHOOD: The new Arizona law is unconstitutional because only the Federal government can deal with immigration and border matters.
TRUTH: The Constitution says that the Federal government has the power to set uniform standards for immigration. By the 10th amendment, that removes this power from the states and forbids them to set such policy. The argument that Arizona is simply enforcing Federal law is ridiculous since there is no Federal charge for trespass, nor is there a Federal law that requires any individual or class of individuals to carry on or about their person any papers or identification proving their resident status.


NOT A FALSEHOOD: The new Arizona law is racist because it will crack down on Hispanics. The new law may apply to everyone who is found in this country illegally, whether it’s a Mexican citizen who walked across the border, or a Norwegian student who overstayed his visa, or a Chinese sailor who slid down the anchor chain of the Chinese freighter he crewed in Los Angeles and hitchhiked to his second-cousin’s house in Phoenix. But as well all know, that their isn't any vocalized protest about Norwegian students overstaying their visas, or Chinese ship passengers, the issue for Arizonans is brown people. To argue otherwise is the height of disingenuousness
You are so full of it. Look through the threads, I think you yourself even posted the same drivel you are saying no liberal ever stated. You guys have no problem whatsoever lying through your teeth.
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Old 05-03-2010, 09:51 AM
 
470 posts, read 388,852 times
Reputation: 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
Funny how left wing lies, resulted in amending the more offensive portions of the bill. If those lies were lies, I suspect that amending those offensive portions would not have been necessary.
It was only necessary because of people like yourself who howled at the moon because you could not comprehend what it meant. They ammended it for the braindead to more easily understand so they will stop with their outright lies.
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Old 05-03-2010, 09:53 AM
 
31,385 posts, read 31,062,067 times
Reputation: 14878
Quote:
Originally Posted by db1025 View Post
You are so full of it.
Full of knowledge, yes I am and thank you for noticing.

Quote:
Look through the threads, I think you yourself even posted the same drivel you are saying no liberal ever stated. You guys have no problem whatsoever lying through your teeth.
Don't think, post.

Anyway, as I wrote above, the very "lies" that I posted were shared by a number of ranking law enforcement officers in Arizona and those aspects of the law which I and others strenuously object have been amended by the Arizona legislature. If those objections were such lies, then their shouldn't have been a reason to amend them.
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