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Old 05-01-2010, 11:23 AM
 
Location: San Diego, CA
10,584 posts, read 7,984,966 times
Reputation: 4151

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Take away the lies about AZ immigration law, and liberals will have nothing to say about it at all.

It’s amazing how many flat-out falsehoods the pro-illegal-immigrant advocates are telling about the new Arizona law.

FALSEHOOD: Arizona police can now walk up to anybody and demand, “Your papers, please!”
TRUTH: They are specifically forbidden to do that, by this very law. They can only ask people who they have already contacted for other, non-immigration purposes (speeding ticket, burglary bust, assault etc.). And even then, they must be able to show why they have a reasonable suspicion that the person might be an illegal alien. If they can’t show that, then they are STILL forbidden to ask for any immigration I.D. Police who do otherwise, are themselves in violation of the law, and can be prosecuted.

FALSEHOOD: This law gives illegal immigrants new things to be afraid of.
TRUTH: This law says nothing that hasn’t already been illegal for the last 70 years. It merely gives Arizona police the authority to enforce them. In fact, the Arizona law is IDENTICAL to Federal laws that have been on the books since 1940. The only difference is, Now Arizona police can enforce those provisions too… and the only thing Arizona police can do, is turn the illegal aliens over to Federal authorities. Arizona police cannot deport the illegal aliens or otherwise punish them.

FALSEHOOD: The new Arizona law is unconstitutional because only the Federal government can deal with immigration and border matters.
TRUTH: The Constitution says that the Federal government has the power to set uniform standards for immigration. By the 10th amendment, that removes this power from the states and forbids them to set such policy. But the Constitution does not forbid states from ENFORCING the policy that the Fed govt sets. And that’s all this new Arizona law does: Give Arizona police the authority to enforce laws that are IDENTICAL to the immigration laws Congress made back in the 1940s, and turn the illegal aliens over to Federal authorities. The Arizona law sets no new immigration policy or standards, and so fully complies with the Constitution.

FALSEHOOD: The new Arizona law is racist because it will crack down on Hispanics.
TRUTH: The new law applies to ANYONE who is found in this country illegally, whether it’s a Mexican citizen who walked across the border, or a Norwegian student who overstayed his visa, or a Chinese sailor who slid down the anchor chain of the Chinese freighter he crewed in Los Angeles and hitchhiked to his second-cousin’s house in Phoenix. In fact, the new law specifically forbids Arizona police from using race, ethnicity, etc. to identify a potential illegal alien… just as Federal law has always forbidden Federal agents from doing the same.

FALSEHOOD: Arizona police are already hassling and arresting people under this new law.
TRUTH: Not one Arizona cop in any jurisdiction, has arrested, detained, or even questioned any person under the new law. The law doesn’t even go into effect until the end of July, 2010.

These are just a few examples of the blizzard of fibs and falsehoods told by those who claim to oppose Arizona’s new immigration law. Without exception, every objection they raise, turns out to be something that isn’t in the law at all! And it often turns out that the law FORBIDS the very thing the people are complaining about, whether it’s racism, or randoms stops, or new powers that weren’t in the original Federal laws.

If you take away all the lies and misinformation about Arizona’s new law, the people complaining will find they have nothing to say about it at all!

The new law is no different from Federal laws that have been on the books for many decades… and have you heard these people complaining about those?

--------------------------------

The text of the new Arizona illegal-alien law can be found here:

Text of Arizona's Anti-Illegal Immigration Law - Part 1 | KEYTLaw

BTW, last night the liberal Juan Williams was interviewing some "Professor of Hispanic Studies" from UCLA. The guy was very much against the new AZ law. Williams pointed out that the new law reflected existing Federal law perfectly and didn't make anything illegal that wasn't already illegal for years. The "professor" insisted that wasn't true, and ranted about how draconian the new law was.

So Williams asked the professor to name one thing the new law made illegal, that wasn't illegal before under Federal law. The "professor" changed the subject and started complaining how expensive the enforcement would be. Williams brought him back to the subject and asked again to name one part of the AZ law etc. The "professor" changed the subject again and started complaining about something else unrelated. Three times, Williams asked him again, to name anything the AZ law made illegal that hadn't been previously. The "professor" duicked the question time and again, and never named anything.

These people don't even know what the law says, or what previous Federal laws have said for years! All they know are the talking points they have been fed.

The new AZ law does NOTHING except authorize its police to enforce the same laws that have been there for years. But catch some supposedly-knowledgable "opponent" admitting that... never!
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Old 05-01-2010, 11:30 AM
 
1,045 posts, read 1,104,443 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Little-Acorn View Post
Take away the lies about AZ immigration law, and liberals will have nothing to say about it at all.

It’s amazing how many flat-out falsehoods the pro-illegal-immigrant advocates are telling about the new Arizona law.


The new AZ law does NOTHING except authorize its police to enforce the same laws that have been there for years. But catch some supposedly-knowledgable "opponent" admitting that... never!

Little Acorn,

Here's my issue with the law, it is a direct attack on individuals freedom and the people of Arizona are morons to pass anything that would give rule to a police state. People often forget we now live in rather semi fair society, so they can not explicitly pass a law attacking only illegal Mexicans, so what will happen is this law will be used against the same Arizona citizens, that demanded it passage for trivial things. You think the cops are going to only use this to stop and arrest immigrants, when they can get more funding through pulling over AZ tax payers and helping to fund state/local/town city coffers for anything. Seriously, just wait the first couple of years may be spent dealing with illegals, but many tax paying private citizens will become victim to this law and then they'll start complaining about it and how it should not have been used against them because they are a legal citizen blah blah i can already see it.

I'm often amazed how many people forget that attempting to limit another group of individuals freedom only reduces your own freedom. The proper and more savvy thing to do would be to legalize all of these individuals and give the amnesty. This would have the effect of increase tax revenues for the services they are using, and also help fund many of the already large federal social programs like Social Security, Medicare, and etc, which heavily rely on a younger working population to fund. We either need a baby boom when the soilders come back or we need more younger illegals coming into our country to work and get taxed. Instead of whining about the illegals complain about why the process to become a citizen takes so long and petition government to expedite the process.

Now all that is going to happen is a bunch of illegals are going to be wasting 30k a year sitting in state Jails in Arizona funding the prison system, so now instead of getting money from the illegals for the work they contribute to the state via taxes, they'll be sitting in a jail, using trail dollars, and wasting even more citizens money on services, they should be paying into.

MAJOR STUPID TRICKY PIECE OF LEGISLATION, that NO TRUE FREEDOM FIGHTING LIBERTARIAN LIKE MYSELF WOULD EVER CHAMPION!
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Old 05-01-2010, 11:37 AM
 
Location: San Diego, CA
10,584 posts, read 7,984,966 times
Reputation: 4151
Quote:
Originally Posted by dorock99 View Post
The proper and more savvy thing to do would be to legalize all of these individuals and give the amnesty.
If somebody robbed a bank, do you think he should then be allowed immediate access to that bank, able to walk in, get in line, open an account, deposit and withdraw money (legitimately this time), interact with the customers, get loans, and get the free toaster... all without ever being tried for his previous crime, without serving a day in jail, and without giving back the money he stole?

Similar question. Identical answer.
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Old 05-01-2010, 11:56 AM
 
Location: Texas
5,774 posts, read 6,672,022 times
Reputation: 2856
I'll just stop you at the first one. How many LEO's do you think; think they have the right to demand ID from someone. And how many LEO's do you think vigorously try to get around Miranda by seeking to push and define what "detention" and "arrest" mean? How many LEO's do you think will if they stop someone on the street and the person utters; "I'm not telling you nothing", will seek to find out why?

ANY and ALL contact with a LEO....IS AN OFFICIAL CONTACT. ANYTIME you interact with a LEO, anything you say, do or have in your possession can be used against you. Therefore they CAN and WILL ask you anything.

Don't think so? The law isn't even in effect and you have this already...

Truck driver forced to show birth certificate claims racial-profiling | Phoenix News | Arizona News | azfamily.com | Arizona News

Quote:
A Valley man says he was pulled over Wednesday morning and questioned when he arrived at a weigh station for his commercial vehicle along Val Vista and the 202 freeway.
...
Abdon was told he did not have enough paperwork on him when he pulled into a weigh station to have his commercial truck checked. He provided his commercial driver’s license and a social security number but ended up handcuffed.

An agent called his wife and she had to leave work to drive home and grab other documents like his birth certificate.
...
A representative at U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) returned 3TV’s calls after researching the incident and she said this was standard operating procedure. The agents needed to verify Abdon was in the country legally and it is not uncommon to ask for someone's birth certificate.
If even ICE is already violating the law, then what is to stop it from getting worse when the law becomes more open to personal interpretation and more vague?

And please...stop using the 10th amendment if you don't really know what it means. Sheesh!
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Old 05-01-2010, 12:09 PM
 
1,650 posts, read 930,414 times
Reputation: 442
Quote:
Originally Posted by Little-Acorn View Post
If somebody robbed a bank, do you think he should then be allowed immediate access to that bank, able to walk in, get in line, open an account, deposit and withdraw money (legitimately this time), interact with the customers, get loans, and get the free toaster... all without ever being tried for his previous crime, without serving a day in jail, and without giving back the money he stole?

Similar question. Identical answer.
Do you believe that every person walking into a bank should have to prove the money they have is not stolen?
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Old 05-01-2010, 12:12 PM
 
Location: Sango, TN
24,889 posts, read 20,351,955 times
Reputation: 8606
If Grandpa looks out of his front window, and sees to Hispanic people standing there, and calls the police and reports possible illegals in his neighborhood, the police MUST show up and question them, and ask for documentation proving their citizenship status.

If they don't, they can be sued for not doing their duty, or responding to the scene of a crime.

And yes, police can ask you for your proof of citizenship, without any prior infraction.
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Old 05-01-2010, 12:13 PM
 
48,519 posts, read 81,227,998 times
Reputation: 17979
Peop0le are driven by emiton of the moment. That is why we are where we are;from teh econmy to our energy problems.We tend to let things go tot eh crisis stage causing a reactive society rahter tha pro active. often the thihngs we are proactive on turn out to be silly and detrmenatl to out survival.
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Old 05-01-2010, 12:13 PM
 
Location: Houston, Tx
3,644 posts, read 5,418,550 times
Reputation: 1613
Great post Little-Acorn. Nothing confunds liberal fearmongers more than when someone presents the truth in a simple, clearn way that anyone can understand.
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Old 05-01-2010, 12:15 PM
 
Location: Rational World Park
4,999 posts, read 3,760,650 times
Reputation: 2372
LOL...A birther calling someone a liar.
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Old 05-01-2010, 12:20 PM
 
Location: San Diego, CA
10,584 posts, read 7,984,966 times
Reputation: 4151
Federal agents have been authorized to ask for proper ID when they reasonably suspect a person is an illegal alien, for more than 60 years. You never had a problem with that until today?

BTW, what gives you the idea the agent did NOT have reasonable grounds for asking? Do you think cops (Federal or otherwise) like getting sued by the hordes of lawyers and ACLU fascists that swarm around every case like this?

BTW, I was reading and analyzing the Constitution and the 10th amendment (correctly) when you were still playing with crayons (poorly). I suggest you try another argument.
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