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Old 05-02-2010, 05:41 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,722,338 times
Reputation: 22158

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juced View Post
You've got that right - that's why they left. Although, I've never heard of people calling it like a concentration camp. It's really not that bad. Mexico has the 14th highest GDP in the world, which places it above, economically, to most countries in the world. The main reason they dislike Mexico is the lack of future the country holds for its rural population. People either move to the cities, or, they come to the U.S.



I think that American view of Mexico has changed for the worst. When I went to Mexico last December I was told I was crazy due to the "drug violence". No one wanted to go because it simply wasn't safe. They were right to an extent, it was the border states that were unsafe. Though, the media painted the entire country as being engulfed in constant drug lord battles.

The people complaining most about the situation are the ones that have been immigrating recently. Moreso, the people of Southern Mexico where they are far more impoverished than the Central and Northern states. Their main subsistence is on agriculture, and guess where that is? NAFTA has made it impossible for these people to compete in the U.S market because of the corporate farms in the U.S that provide food a very low cost. Sure - they are allowed free trade, but they simply cannot compete with the corporations. Think of it as the mom and pop store Vs. Walmart.
Not many left Mexico because they were all that desperately poor there. They leave because the glitter, the materialistic life of the USA, and the government social programs appeal to them.

If Mexico offered them food stamps, free health care, free government housing and they could own cell phones and big screen televisions over there as easily, then they would stay home.

Most don't really complain about Mexico until it comes to excusing themselves for why they left it and especially for trying to get pity when it comes time for returning home. That's when they're most likely to condemn their country, otherwise they're likely to parade around waving their Mexican flags shouting "arriba Mejico". It's only after the ICE vans show up that they throw down their Mexican flags and cry how awful their country is.

Even still -- when they're actually back home, they adjust just fine. It's really a nice enough country -- not the same material wealth and people there have to work harder than people here, and there are no very generous welfare programs for those who don't want to work.

And also - in order to achieve middle class status in Mexico, you have to stay in school, delay the start of a family until you've finished your education, married, and found a job. It's not so different here.
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Old 05-02-2010, 05:50 PM
 
313 posts, read 295,235 times
Reputation: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
Not many left Mexico because they were all that desperately poor there. They leave because the glitter, the materialistic life of the USA, and the government social programs appeal to them.

If Mexico offered them food stamps, free health care, free government housing and they could own cell phones and big screen televisions over there as easily, then they would stay home.

Most don't really complain about Mexico until it comes to excusing themselves for why they left it and especially for trying to get pity when it comes time for returning home. That's when they're most likely to condemn their country, otherwise they're likely to parade around waving their Mexican flags shouting "arriba Mejico". It's only after the ICE vans show up that they throw down their Mexican flags and cry how awful their country is.

Even still -- when they're actually back home, they adjust just fine. It's really a nice enough country -- not the same material wealth and people there have to work harder than people here, and there are no very generous welfare programs for those who don't want to work.

And also - in order to achieve middle class status in Mexico, you have to stay in school, delay the start of a family until you've finished your education, married, and found a job. It's not so different here.
Another meaningful lecture on the Mexican mindset(there's only one!) from expert in Mexican studies, Professor Malamute.

Free trade, Mexican poverty propel illegal immigration - Phoenix Business Journal:

Yeah, they just want flat screen TVs, those scoundrels.

Oppressed Mexicans should unite and fight the ruling class for reform, just like the people in other U.S. backed countries like El Salvador, Bolivia, and Argentina did. Oh, wait....

Let's make it less complicated, and just say it's greedy, poor Mexicans coming over for material goods like electronics and fur coats.
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Old 05-02-2010, 05:50 PM
 
3,071 posts, read 7,446,659 times
Reputation: 1619
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Gutierrez said they would adopt the philosophy of the 60’s Civil Rights Movement. Thus, an arrest for civil disobedience is part and parcel. He fancies himself as the Hispanic version of Dr. King, so we can expect him to deliver a powerful message on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial sometime in the near future.
How can he say its like the 60s? . The folks marching in the 60s were american citizens and needed to be heard. The people hes talking about are mostly illegal aliens and what they say and protest about HERE DONT MEAN DIDLY SQUAT . Next time he trys to get arrested he needs to be locked up for a while....till he learns to show respect for our countrys laws .......
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Old 05-02-2010, 05:53 PM
 
Location: Aurora, Colorado
2,212 posts, read 4,495,378 times
Reputation: 2363
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
They carry the U.S. flag as a prop. We all saw their “real” allegiance during their previous marches in which foreign flags, most notably the Mexican flag, were predominant. After the rallies, those U.S. flags will be discarded, just as they were following their “March for America” rally in DC. If they haven’t learned anything, they have finally learned not to wave their flags while demanding we embrace them and support their legalization. Obviously, they don’t realize we aren’t fooled by their feigned patriotism. They let the cat out of the bag ages ago.
Actually, it's because the people in charge of these protests are no longer "grass roots". This is just another "astroturf" movement and the Hispanic community is being manipulated by unions, the open borders crowd and the Democratic party. The signs they were carrying were professionally printed...the American flags all had "I just got out of the bag" creases, they are now well-funded and have no idea they're being manipulated by a party and groups that have no desire in the world to represent their best interest.

The American people saw and won't forget what those groups looked like when they were left without a PR machine. They had signs saying "this is my land", "You're the immigrant", upside down American flags, Mexican flags, etc etc.

It's still the same people, they just have a professional PR machine behind them now telling them what to wear, what flags to carry and giving them signs that were manufactured by a printing company for thousands of dollars.
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Old 05-02-2010, 05:54 PM
 
313 posts, read 295,235 times
Reputation: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nativechief View Post
How can he say its like the 60s? . The folks marching in the 60s were american citizens and needed to be heard. The people hes talking about are mostly illegal aliens and what they say and protest about HERE DONT MEAN DIDLY SQUAT . Next time he trys to get arrested he needs to be locked up for a while....till he learns to show respect for our countrys laws .......
And by respect, you mean never show disagreement or question them. And you're right, he does need to be locked up for a while for speaking out against the government. In a scary jail we have for political opponents. Let's call it a GULAG or something...just to be more intimidating.

Castro could use a guy like you.
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Old 05-02-2010, 06:02 PM
 
313 posts, read 295,235 times
Reputation: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by the3Ds View Post
Actually, it's because the people in charge of these protests are no longer "grass roots". This is just another "astroturf" movement and the Hispanic community is being manipulated by unions, the open borders crowd and the Democratic party. The signs they were carrying were professionally printed...the American flags all had "I just got out of the bag" creases, they are now well-funded and have no idea they're being manipulated by a party and groups that have no desire in the world to represent their best interest.

The American people saw and won't forget what those groups looked like when they were left without a PR machine. They had signs saying "this is my land", "You're the immigrant", upside down American flags, Mexican flags, etc etc.

It's still the same people, they just have a professional PR machine behind them now telling them what to wear, what flags to carry and giving them signs that were manufactured by a printing company for thousands of dollars.
I didn't know you were there. Lots of opportunistic vendors show up to the rallies. They sell bacon wrapped hot dogs, churros, paletas, and various flags.

American or Mexican flags "por un dollar". Even when purchased, there weren't NEARLY as many Mexican flags as there were Americans. Some people purchased a bulk and handed them out for free to people who happily waved them and handed them to their kids. For people who "hate America", they are pretty disciplined in hiding that hate long enough to enthusiastically wave the flag all day.

It's quite a sight to see these little kids excited to be at this peaceful rally where everyone's waving an American flag. The kids, innocent, and wanting to join in the fun, proudly wave their own flag their parent handed to them. I can't remember when I've seen an American kid that enthusiastic to wave an American flag, even if they don't quite understand what its about right now.

It's a shame how these great events are distorted by the people who aren't even there. A real shame. I've never been prouder, and been able to appreciate being an American as much as I have when at these events.

Lots of political grandstanding, but among the people, also a genuine, positive sense of community among immigrants and Americans alike...mostly Hispanic, but also white, Asians, and Blacks. It's heartbreaking when the media depicts it in a different light, and infuriating when people online who weren't even there manage to take something so good, and twist it to their demented agenda, in the constant attempt to discredit and demonize these people.

There's a lot of heart in these marches, people really fighting for what they believe in. I haven't seen an anti-illegal march that has had that same sense of unity and positive vibe. The pro-reform people march for what they believe is right, even the illegals, they march for themselves. Everybody's marching for something.

The other side is fighting AGAINST something.

It's too bad those few pictures of people with extremists signs or otherwise negative images will be used to tarnish the actual event.
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Old 05-02-2010, 06:12 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,628,664 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by arpayaso View Post
I didn't know you were there. Lots of opportunistic vendors show up to the rallies. They sell bacon wrapped hot dogs, churros, paletas, and various flags.

American or Mexican flags "por un dollar". Even when purchased, there weren't NEARLY as many Mexican flags as there were Americans. Some people purchased a bulk and handed them out for free to people who happily waved them and handed them to their kids. For people who "hate America", they are pretty disciplined in hiding that hate long enough to enthusiastically wave the flag all day.

It's quite a sight to see these little kids excited to be at this peaceful rally where everyone's waving an American flag. The kids, innocent, and wanting to join in the fun, proudly wave their own flag their parent handed to them. I can't remember when I've seen an American kid that enthusiastic to wave an American flag, even if they don't quite understand what its about right now.

It's a shame how these great events are distorted by the people who aren't even there. A real shame. I've never been prouder, and been able to appreciate being an American as much as I have when at these events.

Lots of political grandstanding, but among the people, also a genuine, positive sense of community among immigrants and Americans alike...mostly Hispanic, but also white, Asians, and Blacks. It's heartbreaking when the media depicts it in a different light, and infuriating when people online who weren't even there manage to take something so good, and twist it to their demented agenda, in the constant attempt to discredit and demonize these people.

There's a lot of heart in these marches, people really fighting for what they believe in. I haven't seen an anti-illegal march that has had that same sense of unity and positive vibe. The pro-reform people march for what they believe is right, even the illegals, they march for themselves. Everybody's marching for something.

The other side is fighting AGAINST something.

It's too bad those few pictures of people with extremists signs or otherwise negative images will be used to tarnish the actual event.
Arpayaso: it is now too late for any sort of CIR if it includes amnesty---------the PR damage has been done and us Americans 'on the street' now want ALL illegal aliens out of the USA. And, quite frankly, the MEChA types have especially injured the good name of Americans of Mexican, etc. lineage, Thanks for NOTHING, la raza.
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Old 05-02-2010, 06:13 PM
 
Location: Lake Norman, North Carolina
1,213 posts, read 1,398,109 times
Reputation: 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by arpayaso View Post
I didn't know you were there. Lots of opportunistic vendors show up to the rallies. They sell bacon wrapped hot dogs, churros, paletas, and various flags.

American or Mexican flags "por un dollar". Even when purchased, there weren't NEARLY as many Mexican flags as there were Americans. Some people purchased a bulk and handed them out for free to people who happily waved them and handed them to their kids. For people who "hate America", they are pretty disciplined in hiding that hate long enough to enthusiastically wave the flag all day.

It's quite a sight to see these little kids excited to be at this peaceful rally where everyone's waving an American flag. The kids, innocent, and wanting to join in the fun, proudly wave their own flag their parent handed to them. I can't remember when I've seen an American kid that enthusiastic to wave an American flag, even if they don't quite understand what its about right now.

It's a shame how these great events are distorted by the people who aren't even there. A real shame. I've never been prouder, and been able to appreciate being an American as much as I have when at these events.

Lots of political grandstanding, but among the people, also a genuine, positive sense of community among immigrants and Americans alike...mostly Hispanic, but also white, Asians, and Blacks. It's heartbreaking when the media depicts it in a different light, and infuriating when people online who weren't even there manage to take something so good, and twist it to their demented agenda, in the constant attempt to discredit and demonize these people.

There's a lot of heart in these marches, people really fighting for what they believe in. I haven't seen an anti-illegal march that has had that same sense of unity and positive vibe. The pro-reform people march for what they believe is right, even the illegals, they march for themselves. Everybody's marching for something.

The other side is fighting AGAINST something.

It's too bad those few pictures of people with extremists signs or otherwise negative images will be used to tarnish the actual event.
<< the sound of the world's smallest violin playing tear jerker music >>
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Old 05-02-2010, 06:14 PM
 
313 posts, read 295,235 times
Reputation: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
Arpayaso: it is now too late for any sort of CIR if it includes amnesty---------the PR damage has been done and us Americans 'on the street' now want ALL illegal aliens out of the USA.
By on the street, do you mean in front of your computer on forums that the majority of Americans don't even glance at?

That "us Americans" language is played out. You've been told this before.
Many, many Americans who belong here as much as you do would tell you to take a hike with your own extremist views.
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Old 05-02-2010, 06:15 PM
 
313 posts, read 295,235 times
Reputation: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roguer View Post
<< the sound of the world's smallest violin playing tear jerker music >>
The anti-illegal on display.
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