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I am wheeling my giant RV down a street in Flagstaff, and dang, I turn the wrong way up a one way street and clog traffic, A Flagstaff Police Officer walks up to me and asks me for my DL of which I provide to him because that is normal procedure and of which I provide him with as no one in their right mind would be driving without one. No further investigation is required about my I.D. End of story.
Freedom rider I commend you for arguing the merits of my contention. You are the first. However, you have made the same mistake every other commenter has, in that you think I give a rats hind end about the plight of the illegal.
I have stated nothing to support illegals or the actions of illegals in any way, a brief review of my posts would show that.
That you failed to see that quite important point does affect my opinion of your reasoning.
But, on to the crux of your argument. I don't understand why after I have stated this innumerable times, no one, including you has paid the least attention to it.
Here it is, for at least the 10th time in this thread alone;\
Never before in the history of the republic have citizens been required to carry papers identifying themselves as citizens, aside from free blacks prior to 1865.
Under the AZ law each American must carry the burden of proof that they are citizens at all times in the state of AZ, thus putting themselves in the same position as free blacks prior to 1865, An onerous burden required by no federal statute or state law anywhere but Arizona.
That this has never been required in America aside from the one exception, and that it is required by one state out of 50, and not required by Federal statute, is unreasonable.
For Law Enforcement in Arizona to require a citizen to provide proof of citizenship upon request will be set aside by the Supreme Court for any or all of the following reasons'
A: every poster has not made the same mistake, I knew already that you didn't care for the welfare of Illegals...that was apparent.
B: you are basically assuming that they are going to be able to walk up to anyone for virtually no reason and ask to see ID,
you are wrong in this assumption
Only in the instances where they would make "lawful contact" would they be asking for ID
"Lawful contact" being say
traffic infractions
loitering
bar fights
domestic calls
things of this nature, now instead of asking for ID
and when they cant provide it
being able to do nothing...
they can take it to the next step.
no-ones rights have been violated.
It is well within the constitutional rights of our government to do so
and well within the rights of our local law enforcement to ask for ID
I got caught with a beer at Jones beach once and the park police asked me for ID,
I had it on me and I got a ticket.
had I not had it on me I could have been arrested.
was that a violation of my constitutional rights?
Son, I am tired of trying to explain a pretty darned simple thing. I think you poor people are wilfully turning a blind eye to the problems with the law, because of your peevishness at illegal immigration.
Here is the text;
Quote:
FOR ANY LAWFUL CONTACT MADE BY A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR AGENCY
21 OF THIS STATE OR A COUNTY, CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THIS
22 STATE WHERE REASONABLE SUSPICION EXISTS THAT THE PERSON IS AN ALIEN WHO IS
23 UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES,
Note the use of lawful contact. I was down at a beach the other day and watched the state parks ranger park his truck and wander amongst the picnickers making lawful contact with each one, inquiring about how their visit to the park was going, gently chastising those with dogs off leash. Now, that is lawful contact, back in my LE days I made lawful contact all day long.
However, according to the AZ law, if the LEO does not inquire as to citizenship at each of these lawful contacts, his department and or city or county entity can be sued and fined up to $5,000 per day.
However, without specificity as to "reasonable suspicion" that is not legal under our Constitution.
I find it amusing, and tragic that you, in normal circumstances a staunch defender of our Constitutional rights, or as they say in south Georgia, "our Rats", and those like you have no problem in utterly without a care in the world tossing our Bill of Rights into the dumpster.
And finally, why are you people confused as to the huge difference between showing ID and proving citizenship as the law requires?
And don't give me the prattle about your drivers license being sufficient, if you are not driving you don't need to care it, and you do not need to be a US citizen to get a state drivers license.
Son, I am tired of trying to explain a pretty darned simple thing. I think you poor people are wilfully turning a blind eye to the problems with the law, because of your peevishness at illegal immigration.
Here is the text;
Note the use of lawful contact. I was down at a beach the other day and watched the state parks ranger park his truck and wander amongst the picnickers making lawful contact with each one, inquiring about how their visit to the park was going, gently chastising those with dogs off leash. Now, that is lawful contact, back in my LE days I made lawful contact all day long.
However, according to the AZ law, if the LEO does not inquire as to citizenship at each of these lawful contacts, his department and or city or county entity can be sued and fined up to $5,000 per day.
However, without specificity as to "reasonable suspicion" that is not legal under our Constitution.
I find it amusing, and tragic that you, in normal circumstances a staunch defender of our Constitutional rights, or as they say in south Georgia, "our Rats", and those like you have no problem in utterly without a care in the world tossing our Bill of Rights into the dumpster.
And finally, why are you people confused as to the huge difference between showing ID and proving citizenship as the law requires?
And don't give me the prattle about your drivers license being sufficient, if you are not driving you don't need to care it, and you do not need to be a US citizen to get a state drivers license.
actually there are only two states in the country dumb enough to give licenses to Illegal Immigrants, spitzer wants to but hasn't been able to pass the law. since his bout with prostitution has pretty much ruined his career I doubt it will ever get passed.
you can look here
you have been proven wrong again and again in every aspect of your argument
you should quit while you are horribly behind...
and...don't ever call me son.
Last edited by minesbroken; 05-07-2010 at 04:19 PM..
Is this an admission that this law negatively affects Americans of Mexican descent?
How could it not? Of course the cops are going to be asking more questions if you are of Hispanic decent. it is an unfortunate byproduct of the blatant fact that most Illegal Immigrants in arizona are Mexican.
if they were Canadian it would be me they would be stopping
I wouldn't be complaining though.
kind of like the airport
10 years ago they used to wave the wand over me and I was on my way,
now I have to take my shoes off, dump my possessions into a box, get xrayed, probed prodded... you get the idea.
sometimes there are small inconveniences necessary for the greater good.
it is unfortunate
Son, I am tired of trying to explain a pretty darned simple thing. I think you poor people are wilfully turning a blind eye to the problems with the law, because of your peevishness at illegal immigration.
Here is the text;
Note the use of lawful contact. I was down at a beach the other day and watched the state parks ranger park his truck and wander amongst the picnickers making lawful contact with each one, inquiring about how their visit to the park was going, gently chastising those with dogs off leash. Now, that is lawful contact, back in my LE days I made lawful contact all day long.
However, according to the AZ law, if the LEO does not inquire as to citizenship at each of these lawful contacts, his department and or city or county entity can be sued and fined up to $5,000 per day.
However, without specificity as to "reasonable suspicion" that is not legal under our Constitution.
I find it amusing, and tragic that you, in normal circumstances a staunch defender of our Constitutional rights, or as they say in south Georgia, "our Rats", and those like you have no problem in utterly without a care in the world tossing our Bill of Rights into the dumpster.
And finally, why are you people confused as to the huge difference between showing ID and proving citizenship as the law requires?
And don't give me the prattle about your drivers license being sufficient, if you are not driving you don't need to care it, and you do not need to be a US citizen to get a state drivers license.
Wrong! Where in the law does it state that LE has to ask for proof of citizenship along WITH a valid DL or state I.D. or they will be sued? In the state of Arizona a DL is proof of citizenship or legal residence because a birth certificate or green card has to be presented in order to get a DL in the first place.
Wrong! Where in the law does it state that LE has to ask for proof of citizenship along WITH a valid DL or state I.D. or they will be sued? In the state of Arizona a DL is proof of citizenship or legal residence because a birth certificate or green card has to be presented in order to get a DL in the first place.
I would like to add that this is true in all states but two.
They should change that law though, they should make them fill out all the paperwork and then when theres no social security number on it they should say
Your road test is through those doors over there...
through the doors into the back of an Ins van
back home you go.
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