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Once again, a VALID DL or state I.D. is proof of either citizenship or legal residency in all but three states.
But that is not what is at issue, a legal alien must carry identification separate from a drivers license at all times. A citizen only needs to carry a drivers license when operating a motor vehicle. And as you so thoughtfully submitted, the supporting cases for the Hiible case demonstrates that a citizen does not have to carry ID.
If you are walking along minding you business, in the US of A you are not required to carry ID, let alone proof of citizenship.
Now, in AZ you will be required to do what has never been required, and you may be subject to lawful contact by any government employee, not just law enforcement, and if you cannot prove citizenship, you will be arrested.
Funny thing kids, my interest is in protecting you from the over reaching arm of the government, and you fight me, not very well, but you fight me.
You would sell your birthright for a mess of potage, bizarre.
No, the Arizona law doesn't "require" that a citizen carry I.D. at all times. If someone chooses not to and they are asked for it by LE then they should expect some questions about I.D. to come into play. If you are willing to take that chance then that is your proagative. You are constantly making a mountain out of a mole hill when most sensible Americans already carry I.D. on them all the time.
No one in America has been required to carry identity papers, except of course for free Negros prior to 1865. If you drive a car you have consented to carry an id, but, aside from that, well,
let me ask you, do you carry proof of citizenship with you?
I don't, and it is not now, nor ever has been a requirement in any state in this union. Arizona's law is a clear infringement of the fourth amendment.
My opinions have nothing to do with the merits or non merits of illegal immigration, but, are entirely based on the fourth amendment.
Here is some cynicism for you. One of the major backers of this bill is a law firm that specializes in handling immigration cases for cities and counties in Arizona, they are going to make a killing off this law.
My wife and I enjoy the Southwest, we enjoy the natural beauty and diverse culture of Arizona, mostly up in the north, the Grand Canyon, Hopi and Navajo reservations.
We have planned a trip to AZ for August, we will now make a few minor changes in our planning, as summed up in this text, which is the draft of the letter we will send to the AZ tourism dept, and to the great magazine, Arizona Highways.
Dear ......
Principles are what is important in life, I as a Vietnam Veteran am especially cognizant of the rights and privileges of being an American Citizen. One of those rights includes not having to carry identity papers to prove my citizenship to law enforcement, as did the citizens of Germany under the Nazis and as did the citizens of the Soviet Union, and as now, do the citizens of the United States within the boundaries of the benighted state of Arizona.
We intend to spend two weeks in AZ this summer, but, as a protest against the adoption of an unAmerican law, as a protest against the affront to the Constitution of the United States,
we will not spend a penny in the once great state of AZ.
We will fuel our rig in Utah and or New Mexico (we buy a great deal of fuel)
we will buy groceries in Utah,
we will stay only on Federal land, parks and reservations,
we will shop for gifts and souvenirs only in Federal or Tribal shops.
We will not patronize Arizona restaurants, grocery stores, motels or hotels.
Each place we visit, we will make a judgment as to whether our dollars will contribute to the Arizona economy, if so, we shall not make that expenditure. We are encouraging others to do as we will.
I am personally trying to do as much business in AZ as possible. I am buying items online as well as planning a vacation later this year. Unlike you I will spend as much money as possible in AZ.
You guys still don't get it, it is like you are one of the old carriage horses with blinders on. I don't give a rats hind end about the illegals, you can pick everyone of them up and send them to Austrailia. Please try and get that through your heads, inspite of the tin foil hats.
This is typical, the boy is complaining about an argument I have not made. Mindbroken, did you happen to read my post? My point was that showing Law Enforcement (or under the new law, any government employee) a drivers license as some of you suggested does not prove citizenship. Actually responding to the point made is the preferable alternative.
Come on, read my posts, oh, that's right, we tried that already. This is truly surreal. It makes no difference what I say, you see the same thing.
You will understand now, when I say, I cannot take seriously, those who do not reason, do not think critically, do not analyze, or, based on your posts, you won't understand.
So, time for some Arizona Jokes.
I understand now why Jon Stewart called Arizona "the meth lab of democracy".
The Hitler family is going to get rich off Arizona!
and, how do we know the toothbrush was invented in Arizona? Anywhere else it would have been called the Teethbrush.!!,
Now that's funny, I don't care who you are!
now who's doing the name calling
I read all your posts
the lack of common sense is starting to make me sad.
You like to poke fun at people who live in Arizona
say that they have no teeth
drive jacked up trucks
whatever dude
Why don't you take a good look at yourself instead
bet you have and it makes YOU sad.
calling us anti constitution but you cant explain why...
no evidence
just more complaints about how we don't read your post.
when A whole bunch of people start to wonder what your talking about dude
maybe
its not them
maybe
its you
No, the Arizona law doesn't "require" that a citizen carry I.D. at all times. If someone chooses not to and they are asked for it by LE then they should expect some questions about I.D. to come into play. If you are willing to take that chance then that is your proagative. You are constantly making a mountain out of a mole hill when most sensible Americans already carry I.D. on them all the time.
Chicago, you are the worst offender, for some reason you cannot get it through your head that ID, is not proof of Citizenship,
You cannot get it through your head that Americans, except as I have noted have never had to carry papers proving they are citizens.
It is not a mole hill that AZ has created, it is a mountain, and you will get to see that played out..
Quote:
Why don't you take a good look at yourself instead
bet you have and it makes YOU sad, No, trying to explain the easily explainable to those who willfully refuse to understand it, makes me laugh
calling us anti constitution but you cant explain why... But, I did explain it clearly and carefully many times in this thread.
no evidence
just more complaints about how we don't read your post. You should have used the word "comprehend" not "read".
when A whole bunch of people start to wonder what your talking about dude
maybe
its not them
maybe
its you Use of the term dude explains a lot.
John Stuart Mill said this; which probably explains the comprehension problems some have;
He, a fairly well known political philosopher had this to say
Quote:
I never meant to say that the Conservatives are generally stupid. I meant to say that stupid people are generally Conservative. I believe that is so obviously and universally admitted a principle that I hardly think any gentleman will deny it.
Chicago, you are the worst offender, for some reason you cannot get it through your head that ID, is not proof of Citizenship,
You cannot get it through your head that Americans, except as I have noted have never had to carry papers proving they are citizens.
It is not a mole hill that AZ has created, it is a mountain, and you will get to see that played out..
John Stuart Mill said this; which probably explains the comprehension problems some have;
He, a fairly well known political philosopher had this to say
And you can't get it through your head that aside from three states a person is asked for their birth certificate or green card if a legal resident before being provided with a DL. Therefore, a DL is proof that you are either a citizen or legal resident.
And you can't get it through your head that an American still doesn't have to carry proof of their citizenship aka a DL with them (unless they are driving of course). That doesn't mean that they aren't obligated to provide it if stopped during "legal contact" by LE which was the same criteria before the law passed. I give up! You just keep chasing your tail and I am done playing your game.
Chicago, you are the worst offender, for some reason you cannot get it through your head that ID, is not proof of Citizenship, ID is proof of being LEGAL
You cannot get it through your head that Americans, except as I have noted have never had to carry papers proving they are citizens. Get it through your head...The problem in Arizona is obviously more dire than you can comprehend so now you do...
It is not a mole hill that AZ has created, it is a mountain, and you will get to see that played out.. It is you making a mountain out of a mole hill...merely asking for ID is not a violation of constitutional rights, getting arrested and having your freedom taken away is
but thats not what were talking about here
John Stuart Mill said this; which probably explains the comprehension problems some have;
You paying attention to John Stuart actually explains a lot
He, a fairly well known political philosopher had this to say
Now your saying I cant comprehend what your saying?
getting a little angry are you?
starting to take stabs at my intelligence?
maybe your just not happy all by yourself in the corner.
Your argument still grows weaker and more and more sad with each post.
the problem is you.
the word "Dude" explains nothing.
it's ok though
since soooo many people agree with you
you must be right.
maybe you just need to stop analyzing other people and take a good look at yourself "DUDE"
And you can't get it through your head that aside from three states a person is asked for their birth certificate or green card if a legal resident before being provided with a DL. Therefore, a DL is proof that you are either a citizen or legal resident.
And you can't get it through your head that an American still doesn't have to carry proof of their citizenship aka a DL with them (unless they are driving of course). That doesn't mean that they aren't obligated to provide it if stopped during "legal contact" by LE which was the same criteria before the law passed. I give up! You just keep chasing your tail and I am done playing your game.
apparently everyone has a problem but him, The use of the word "dude" explains a lot in his world where he is all by himself up on his pedestal where no one else understands the bulk of his god like wisdom.
care for a game of checkers?
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