U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 05-02-2010, 11:23 AM
 
Location: Central Coast
2,014 posts, read 4,732,081 times
Reputation: 815

Advertisements

Quote:
Go ahead but as 70% of Americans support Arizona's law, very likely more will come to Arizona and your absence won't be felt.

Apparently 70% of Americans (by your statement), do not understand the fourth amendment.

Too bad you don't do a single thing for the millions of unemployed Americans. They matter nothing to you because you put the "rights" of foreigners breaking our laws ahead of any American.

How could you possibly know what I do or don't do for unemployed Americans? Gee Whiz, you pulled that one out of far left field.
I could not care one whit about the rights of foreigners, if you had read my post I talked only of the rights of citizens, which may even include you. You are willing to carry proof of citizenship? You are willing to go down that path, that has never before occurred in the United States of America, aside from free negros pre 1865?

Ben Franklin said that those who prefer security over freedom, deserve neither.


I would suggest you take your trip in Los Angeles because the economy there is pretty bad and they're going to need more revenue with the large onslaught of new illegals coming.

I am having a great deal of trouble following your logic. Please reread my post, and reframe your conclusions based on what I presented.
...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 05-02-2010, 11:26 AM
 
638 posts, read 1,005,149 times
Reputation: 409
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarks View Post
No one in America has been required to carry identity papers, except of course for free Negros prior to 1865. If you drive a car you have consented to carry an id, but, aside from that, well,
let me ask you, do you carry proof of citizenship with you?

I don't, and it is not now, nor ever has been a requirement in any state in this union. Arizona's law is a clear infringement of the fourth amendment.

My opinions have nothing to do with the merits or non merits of illegal immigration, but, are entirely based on the fourth amendment.

Here is some cynicism for you. One of the major backers of this bill is a law firm that specializes in handling immigration cases for cities and counties in Arizona, they are going to make a killing off this law.

My wife and I enjoy the Southwest, we enjoy the natural beauty and diverse culture of Arizona, mostly up in the north, the Grand Canyon, Hopi and Navajo reservations.

We have planned a trip to AZ for August, we will now make a few minor changes in our planning, as summed up in this text, which is the draft of the letter we will send to the AZ tourism dept, and to the great magazine, Arizona Highways.

Dear ......
Principles are what is important in life, I as a Vietnam Veteran am especially cognizant of the rights and privileges of being an American Citizen. One of those rights includes not having to carry identity papers to prove my citizenship to law enforcement, as did the citizens of Germany under the Nazis and as did the citizens of the Soviet Union, and as now, do the citizens of the United States within the boundaries of the benighted state of Arizona.

We intend to spend two weeks in AZ this summer, but, as a protest against the adoption of an unAmerican law, as a protest against the affront to the Constitution of the United States,
we will not spend a penny in the once great state of AZ.
We will fuel our rig in Utah and or New Mexico (we buy a great deal of fuel)
we will buy groceries in Utah,
we will stay only on Federal land, parks and reservations,
we will shop for gifts and souvenirs only in Federal or Tribal shops.
We will not patronize Arizona restaurants, grocery stores, motels or hotels.

Each place we visit, we will make a judgment as to whether our dollars will contribute to the Arizona economy, if so, we shall not make that expenditure. We are encouraging others to do as we will.
I on the other hand have decided to take a trip to Arizona...in addition I will be sending money to the state in ANY form I can. When the Federal Government begins to enforce their laws and keeps the people of Arizona safe then laws like this will NOT be enacted. You have the uninformed right to complain all you want but illegals cost us BILLIONS of dollars in services (welfare, prison, etc, etc, etc, etc) each and every year. By the way, why even vacation in this terrible country. I have some GREAT ideas for a vacation.....Iran is nice this time of year, so is Venezuela, Afghanistan offers some great views and history, and Russia is always beautiful in the summer.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-02-2010, 11:52 AM
 
Location: San Diego North County
4,800 posts, read 7,703,406 times
Reputation: 3010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarks View Post
No one in America has been required to carry identity papers, except of course for free Negros prior to 1865. If you drive a car you have consented to carry an id, but, aside from that, well,
let me ask you, do you carry proof of citizenship with you?

I don't, and it is not now, nor ever has been a requirement in any state in this union. Arizona's law is a clear infringement of the fourth amendment.

My opinions have nothing to do with the merits or non merits of illegal immigration, but, are entirely based on the fourth amendment.

Here is some cynicism for you. One of the major backers of this bill is a law firm that specializes in handling immigration cases for cities and counties in Arizona, they are going to make a killing off this law.

My wife and I enjoy the Southwest, we enjoy the natural beauty and diverse culture of Arizona, mostly up in the north, the Grand Canyon, Hopi and Navajo reservations.

We have planned a trip to AZ for August, we will now make a few minor changes in our planning, as summed up in this text, which is the draft of the letter we will send to the AZ tourism dept, and to the great magazine, Arizona Highways.

Dear ......
Principles are what is important in life, I as a Vietnam Veteran am especially cognizant of the rights and privileges of being an American Citizen. One of those rights includes not having to carry identity papers to prove my citizenship to law enforcement, as did the citizens of Germany under the Nazis and as did the citizens of the Soviet Union, and as now, do the citizens of the United States within the boundaries of the benighted state of Arizona.

We intend to spend two weeks in AZ this summer, but, as a protest against the adoption of an unAmerican law, as a protest against the affront to the Constitution of the United States,
we will not spend a penny in the once great state of AZ.
We will fuel our rig in Utah and or New Mexico (we buy a great deal of fuel)
we will buy groceries in Utah,
we will stay only on Federal land, parks and reservations,
we will shop for gifts and souvenirs only in Federal or Tribal shops.
We will not patronize Arizona restaurants, grocery stores, motels or hotels.

Each place we visit, we will make a judgment as to whether our dollars will contribute to the Arizona economy, if so, we shall not make that expenditure. We are encouraging others to do as we will.
Every time you use a credit card or write a check; every time you get on an airplane; any time you drive your car, register for school, have utilities turned on in a new home, apply for a passport, you must furnish the exact same identification which also identifies you as a citizen of the United States.

In 1996, Bill Clinton signed a bill into law, granting states the right to enforce Federal Immigration Law. Arizona has been begging the Federal government for assistance for a decade, and the Federal government has ignored their pleas for help. Now you want to punish Arizona for enforcing the law? For putting into place a law which requires a person to carry the same ID 99.9% of Americans use every day?

What's next? Amnesty for deadbeat dads? For child molesters? For red-light runners?

Apparently you are the one who does not understand the Fourth Amendment. Protection against unreasonable search and seizure does NOT protect a person from being pulled over in their car after running a red light and subsequently being asked for driver's license, car registration, and insurance. This law allows only for law enforcement to question legal status if a person is pulled over during a traffic violation or if they are caught in the commission of a crime. Sheriff Joe Arpaio has been doing the same thing for years. He's turned over 38,000 illegal aliens and not one of them has screamed racial profiling. Obama has had goons following Arpaio around for the last year and a half and they have yet to find his immigration squad racially profiling anyone.

The ignorance of the American public is mind-numbing.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-02-2010, 04:33 PM
 
Location: Central Coast
2,014 posts, read 4,732,081 times
Reputation: 815
Quote:
Every time you use a credit card or write a check; every time you get on an airplane; any time you drive your car, register for school, have utilities turned on in a new home, apply for a passport, you must furnish the exact same identification which also identifies you as a citizen of the United States.
Sorry bub, you done be incorrect. Now far be it for me to educate ya'll, but, it may be worth your while to educate yourself. I possess one piece of id that identifies me as a citizen of this country, and that is my passport, which I have never shown to get a credit card, or write a check, or get on an airplane or drive my car, or register any of my kids for school, or have utilities turned on an any of my new homes. Best think through that one again.



A long time ago I swore an oath to uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic. With this law, we are seeing domestic enemies of the Constitution in action. Now my guess is a lot of these people like to stand around in groups with funny hats and talk about how much they love the Constitution. But, they are willing to pitch that puppy overboard to achieve their political ends.

They would be funny if they weren't so dangerous.

Now to specifics, I have no interest in protecting the rights of illegals, I (and you should) have a strong interest in protecting the rights of citizens, and in protecting the Constitution. In this country except as I stated above, no citizen has ever had to carry papers identifying him or herself as a citizen of the United States, when this law goes into effect in Arizona, each citizen will need to carry identity papers proving they have a right to be in this country.

And that folks, just ain't right.

Personally I think all 460,000 odd illegals in AZ should all, simultaneously enter police stations and sheriffs offices throughout Arizona. Now, that would be too funny, Since there are not near enough jail cells in the state to handle the 460,000 odd illegals, the Police would have to let the vast majority go home. And that would play well on the 6 o'clock news.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-02-2010, 04:52 PM
 
Location: Helena, Montana
2,010 posts, read 2,047,401 times
Reputation: 780
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarks View Post
Sorry bub, you done be incorrect. Now far be it for me to educate ya'll, but, it may be worth your while to educate yourself. I possess one piece of id that identifies me as a citizen of this country, and that is my passport, which I have never shown to get a credit card, or write a check, or get on an airplane or drive my car, or register any of my kids for school, or have utilities turned on an any of my new homes. Best think through that one again.
So now we're just a bunch of dumb rednecks? Way to get your point across. Wonder why there's not more people on your side....
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-02-2010, 04:57 PM
 
Location: Central Coast
2,014 posts, read 4,732,081 times
Reputation: 815
Quote:
So now we're just a bunch of dumb rednecks? Way to get your point across.
I must confess, it is an utter mystery to me how you came to the conclusion I called anyone, let alone a "bunch" rednecks.
Quote:
Wonder why there's not more people on your side...
This too is a bit of a mystery. Why do you think there are few Americans who support and defend the Constitution.

If you wouldn't mind, can you explain your post?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-02-2010, 05:11 PM
 
Location: Aurora, Colorado
2,212 posts, read 4,505,554 times
Reputation: 2363
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarks View Post
Dear ......
Principles are what is important in life, I as a Vietnam Veteran am especially cognizant of the rights and privileges of being an American Citizen. One of those rights includes not having to carry identity papers to prove my citizenship to law enforcement, as did the citizens of Germany under the Nazis and as did the citizens of the Soviet Union, and as now, do the citizens of the United States within the boundaries of the benighted state of Arizona.

We intend to spend two weeks in AZ this summer, but, as a protest against the adoption of an unAmerican law, as a protest against the affront to the Constitution of the United States,
we will not spend a penny in the once great state of AZ.
We will fuel our rig in Utah and or New Mexico (we buy a great deal of fuel)
we will buy groceries in Utah,
we will stay only on Federal land, parks and reservations,
we will shop for gifts and souvenirs only in Federal or Tribal shops.
We will not patronize Arizona restaurants, grocery stores, motels or hotels.

Each place we visit, we will make a judgment as to whether our dollars will contribute to the Arizona economy, if so, we shall not make that expenditure. We are encouraging others to do as we will.
Wow! Sounds like a fun vacation!

It gives me flashbacks of the time I went with my roommate from college who decided to be a vegan right before summer vacation started. Every place we stopped, she had to ask about the food, whether the fries were cooked in oil that had cooked meat, whether the food had been "farm raised"...the list was endless.

So...while you're staying on FEDERAL land, perhaps you can sleep better at night. I would ask you to examine why it is that Arizona took the harsh steps it had to (the feds are too afraid to lose electoral votes). I'd also encourage you to stay as far SOUTH in Arizona as you can. Perhaps you and your wife will enjoy watching the illegals cross through the desert at night and hey...you might want to bring some firearms with you because I can guarantee you that the "coyotes" (human traffickers) and drug smugglers will be more than happy to leave you for dead. You might also want to send your condolences to Robert Krentz, the rancher who was murdered ON HIS OWN LAND by an illegal.

Have a great vacation. You just convinced ME to stay in a hotel instead of at my in-laws house when we head to Phoenix in June. BTW, my husband retired from the AF 3 years ago so he understands the "rights and privileges of being an American" too. He wouldn't pass up the chance to eat at one of the fabulous Mexican restaurants in Phoenix, but then again, he thinks this law is a good one.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-02-2010, 05:32 PM
 
Location: Central Coast
2,014 posts, read 4,732,081 times
Reputation: 815
Arizona took the harsh steps it did for two reasons, votes and money. I advise you to research the law firms that worked to get this law passed, and what their bread and butter is.

Now, as for the border, I have a friend, actually a well known America author, she lives on the border, she keeps her house un locked, and food and water available for those who need it.

She has lived in the same home, in the country, just north of the border for over 40 years, and has never had a problem.

There are those who are filled with fear, there are those who promote fear, and there are those whose lives are circumscribed by fear.

But they ain't me.

Your husband took an oath to defend the Constitution from all enemies, foreign and domestic The legislature of Arizona has shown which one it is.

My opposition to the law has nothing to do with illegals and or illegal immigration. It does have to do with defending the rights of citizens to be secure in their persons.

That so many who prattle on about the glories of the Constitution have failed to see this law for what it is, says a whole lot about them, and it ain't good.

Let me ask you, do you carry proof of citizenship with you at all times?
If you get pulled over for easing through a stop sign instead of coming to a full settled stop, and you are asked to prove your right to be in this country, can you?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-02-2010, 05:42 PM
 
Location: Aurora, Colorado
2,212 posts, read 4,505,554 times
Reputation: 2363
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarks View Post
Let me ask you, do you carry proof of citizenship with you at all times?
If you get pulled over for easing through a stop sign instead of coming to a full settled stop, and you are asked to prove your right to be in this country, can you?
If I was "easing through a stop sign" that means I'm driving, right? Then, yes, I can tell you with 100% certainty that I have never, never, in my 20+ years of driving (even just down the street) gotten behind the wheel of a car without my license. When my wallet was stolen, I didn't drive until I got my license back...not even just a "quick trip." It's the law. In order to get my first driver's license, I presented the DMV with my birth certificate and my passport (since I was born in a foreign country but am an American citizen).

As for my husband understanding his duties, trust me that he does and did when he served. It probably doesn't matter to you that he's Mexican-American too and his mother IS one of those people whose family lived in Arizona longer than statehood.

As for your friend, well, she's an idiot. Robert Krentz left water out for the illegals too...he wasn't sitting on his porch with a shotgun, but if your friend has no fear of a drug smuggler or a human trafficker deciding her house is "easy pickins", well, what can I say other than I'll keep my fingers crossed that she doesn't regret her decision. But, then, even in my neighborhood which is quiet and relatively safe, I woudn't leave my doors wide open at night because most crime is one of opportunity and I'm not going to give someone the chance. I don't live in fear...I don't own a gun...but I do know that there's a difference between being safe and being stupid and your friend, if she's living in the middle of nowhere and leaves her doors wide open in an area that is well known to be a human and drug smuggling corridor is likely going to be killed.

Anyway...you seem determined to prove some sort of point by taking time to make sure nothing you touch is in any way part of Arizona and I for one think it's hilarious that you've got that much time on your hands.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-02-2010, 05:59 PM
 
472 posts, read 629,425 times
Reputation: 360
I wonder if the protesters of this law have actually seen it and compared it with current Federal law.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top