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Old 05-03-2010, 10:01 AM
 
Location: San Diego North County
4,800 posts, read 7,686,811 times
Reputation: 3010

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Quote:
Originally Posted by arpayaso View Post
So, so very important. You remind me of people who wear glasses without prescription, place their diplomas so everyone can see how important they are, and inject as many big words into their sentences, no matter how awkward it comes off. I've read your stuff, and by your stuff I mean your rants on the internet regarding brown people discriminating against you.
You claim to be published, and I would love to see that!

People aren't impressed by people who brag about themselves too much. It makes them look like a joke. Modesty is a virtue, and one who openly boasts(about going to college at an advanced age?) is trying to make up for some other shortcomings.

But anyway, congratulations on being a grammar nazi, building up your own merits, and appearing cultured with a french phrase all in one post! That's a lot of ego stroking! I'll leave you to that.
I do have a healthy sense of who I am--and nothing you say will change that. Sorry you've got a problem with it.

I've come up with many common sense solutions to the problem of illegal immigration on this forum--however, since I hold no public office, I'd be hard-pressed to get them put into practice. Additionally, for you to continue to insist that I hold some sort of unmitigated resentment against "brown people" shows just how few of my posts you've ever read. My ancestors on my mother's side were "brown people." Hatred of them would mean hatred of myself and I think we've already established that my self esteem is far too vigorous for that. However, I will admit to an ongoing resentment of people who flaunt U.S. sovereign law simply by the virtue of their presence in this country.

What a funny little person you are.

You who cannot develope a sentient argument and so must resort to ad hominem attacks on those with whom you disagree...it would be highly amusing if it weren't so sad.

Have fun with that.

Last edited by Kele; 05-03-2010 at 10:22 AM..
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Old 05-03-2010, 10:49 AM
 
Location: Central Coast
2,014 posts, read 4,719,645 times
Reputation: 815
Quote:
Since the 1940's it is a Federal Law that all aliens carry proof of residency. What's the beef? Get your papers in order because now you'll be asked for them, 70 years later. We are "oh so harsh". Get a grip and stop whining.

Oh, and if found here illegally, you'll be booted out.
Getout, How interesting, and the police are psychic enough to know to only stop aliens?

Chicago nut. To support the Constitution of the United States is to be pro illegal? What a quaint concept.

Here is the section of the law in question.
Quote:
B. FOR ANY LAWFUL CONTACT MADE BY A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR AGENCY
21 OF THIS STATE OR A COUNTY, CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THIS
22 STATE WHERE REASONABLE SUSPICION EXISTS THAT THE PERSON IS AN ALIEN WHO IS
23 UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES, A REASONABLE ATTEMPT SHALL BE MADE,
24 WHEN PRACTICABLE, TO DETERMINE THE IMMIGRATION STATUS OF THE PERSON. THE
25 PERSON'S IMMIGRATION STATUS SHALL BE VERIFIED WITH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT
26 PURSUANT TO 8 UNITED STATES CODE SECTION 1373(c).
If you are stopped, and the law enforcement officer has
Quote:
REASONABLE SUSPICION EXISTS THAT THE PERSON IS AN ALIEN WHO IS
23 UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES,
Then;
Quote:
A REASONABLE ATTEMPT SHALL BE MADE,
24 WHEN PRACTICABLE, TO DETERMINE THE IMMIGRATION STATUS OF THE PERSON.
The burden of proving ones legality is on the accused. That is, you, or me, or any of the 300,000,000 odd people in this country. That is unreasonable under the Constitution.

Now, let me try something out on you, a minor change in wording, see how this works for you, see if you can detect the slippery slope ignoring the Constitution creates;

B. FOR ANY LAWFUL CONTACT MADE BY A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR AGENCY
21 OF THIS STATE OR A COUNTY, CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THIS
22 STATE WHERE REASONABLE SUSPICION EXISTS THAT THE PERSON IS A JEW PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES, A REASONABLE ATTEMPT SHALL BE MADE,
24 WHEN PRACTICABLE, TO DETERMINE THE JEWISH STATUS OF THE PERSON. THE
25 PERSON'S JEWISH STATUS SHALL BE VERIFIED WITH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT
26 PURSUANT TO 8 UNITED STATES CODE SECTION 1373(c).
27 C. IF A JEW PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES IS
28 CONVICTED OF A VIOLATION OF STATE OR LOCAL LAW, ON DISCHARGE FROM
29 IMPRISONMENT OR ASSESSMENT OF ANY FINE THAT IS IMPOSED, THE JEW SHALL BE
30 TRANSFERRED IMMEDIATELY TO THE CUSTODY OF THE UNITED STATES IMMIGRATION AND
31 CUSTOMS ENFORCEMENT OR THE UNITED STATES CUSTOMS AND BORDER PROTECTION.
32 D. NOTWITHSTANDING ANY OTHER LAW, A LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY MAY
33 SECURELY TRANSPORT AN JEW WHO IS UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES
34 AND WHO IS IN THE AGENCY'S CUSTODY TO A FEDERAL FACILITY IN THIS STATE OR TO
35 ANY OTHER POINT OF TRANSFER INTO FEDERAL CUSTODY THAT IS OUTSIDE THE
36 JURISDICTION OF THE LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY.

That has been tried before, can you detect the basic Constitutional problem>
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Old 05-03-2010, 11:02 AM
 
4,828 posts, read 6,789,466 times
Reputation: 620
Quote:
Originally Posted by AZLiam View Post
The ones who are uninformed and haven't even bothered to take notice of the repercussions of not having a secure border (drug smuggling, human smuggling, kidnapping, other crime associated).

The ones who are uninformed and haven't even bothered to read SB 1070.

The ones who are wanting amnesty either for themselves, their family, friends, or anyone in the country illegally. This includes those who abuse their visas when visiting the U.S.

The politicians who are more interested in the votes they will recieve/not recieve based on where they stand on the issue.

The celebrities/sports organizations, news organizations who stand to gain/lose money based on where they stand on the issue.

The cities/states who stand to gain additional illegal immigrants who may flee from Arizona to other states.
Typical of the so called "anti-illegal" crowd to label anyone who doesn't agree with their point of view. Yet, they throw a fit when the same is done to them.
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Old 05-03-2010, 11:06 AM
 
Location: Phoenix
5,361 posts, read 7,050,845 times
Reputation: 3973
Quote:
Originally Posted by blacknight04 View Post
Typical of the so called "anti-illegal" crowd to label anyone who doesn't agree with their point of view. Yet, they throw a fit when the same is done to them.


Prove me wrong.
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Old 05-03-2010, 11:08 AM
 
Location: Right where I want to be.
4,507 posts, read 7,823,618 times
Reputation: 3304
Clarks, Your hypothetical analogy is grossly flawed and irrational. Race and religion have Constitution protection, being here ILLEGALLY doesn't.

Quote:
Getout, How interesting, and the police are psychic enough to know to only stop aliens?
No....but IF the police have reason to stop a legal immigrant they are supposed to have their papers with them at all times. Do you get that...they are not looking for legal immigrants but when they are questioned they have to identify themselves.

Quote:
The burden of proving ones legality is on the accused. That is, you, or me, or any of the 300,000,000 odd people in this country. That is unreasonable under the Constitution.
Duh, that is always the case. When I go to the DMV to get a license it is up to me to prove that I am a citizen. If pulled over by the cops it is up to me to identify myself and provide a legal license. Who the heck else should be identifying me or proving that I am legally here?
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Old 05-03-2010, 11:13 AM
 
Location: Verde Valley AZ
8,214 posts, read 9,093,756 times
Reputation: 10386
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarks View Post
No one in America has been required to carry identity papers, except of course for free Negros prior to 1865. If you drive a car you have consented to carry an id, but, aside from that, well,
let me ask you, do you carry proof of citizenship with you?

I don't, and it is not now, nor ever has been a requirement in any state in this union. Arizona's law is a clear infringement of the fourth amendment.

My opinions have nothing to do with the merits or non merits of illegal immigration, but, are entirely based on the fourth amendment.

Here is some cynicism for you. One of the major backers of this bill is a law firm that specializes in handling immigration cases for cities and counties in Arizona, they are going to make a killing off this law.

My wife and I enjoy the Southwest, we enjoy the natural beauty and diverse culture of Arizona, mostly up in the north, the Grand Canyon, Hopi and Navajo reservations.

We have planned a trip to AZ for August, we will now make a few minor changes in our planning, as summed up in this text, which is the draft of the letter we will send to the AZ tourism dept, and to the great magazine, Arizona Highways.

Dear ......
Principles are what is important in life, I as a Vietnam Veteran am especially cognizant of the rights and privileges of being an American Citizen. One of those rights includes not having to carry identity papers to prove my citizenship to law enforcement, as did the citizens of Germany under the Nazis and as did the citizens of the Soviet Union, and as now, do the citizens of the United States within the boundaries of the benighted state of Arizona.

We intend to spend two weeks in AZ this summer, but, as a protest against the adoption of an unAmerican law, as a protest against the affront to the Constitution of the United States,
we will not spend a penny in the once great state of AZ.
We will fuel our rig in Utah and or New Mexico (we buy a great deal of fuel)
we will buy groceries in Utah,
we will stay only on Federal land, parks and reservations,
we will shop for gifts and souvenirs only in Federal or Tribal shops.
We will not patronize Arizona restaurants, grocery stores, motels or hotels.

Each place we visit, we will make a judgment as to whether our dollars will contribute to the Arizona economy, if so, we shall not make that expenditure. We are encouraging others to do as we will.
Well, thank YOU very much. As a long time employee in the hospitality industry I really do appreciate you taking the food out of MY mouth by refusing to part with your $$s in Arizona. I had no part in making up this new immigration bill. I had no vote on it...yet. It wasn't me or the thousands of other hospitality workers who are pushing you away. It's YOU and only YOU because you think we are being hard on the ILLEGALS who come here and suck our state dry. Shame on you. But it's your right, right?
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Old 05-03-2010, 11:21 AM
 
Location: Texas
1,134 posts, read 1,009,104 times
Reputation: 1461
too many people from other parts of the country are getting involved in this immigration issue and it is very different depending on where you live. i don't appreciate some person who live in Michigan telling me how the problem is here in Texas and trying to influence others here. i live here and it is way more complicated than you make it out to be.

i was born blue eyed and blonde haired. i was accepted into all the Texan families as a young child as a guest. I however am only a 2nd generation American. I married a Mexican-American whose family has a variety of ancestry going back to 3 generations back from Mexico, some from Spain 3 generations back, one German from several generations back and more Spanish from many generations back who used to own ranch land in the Santa Fe area. Overall his years of being American obliterates mine many times over yet when he grew up some neighbor kids Mom forbid their children from playing with him cause he was brown. She finally rationalized it by pretending he was Lebanese because they were acceptable here in Austin. He is always asked about his heritage and where he is from. meanwhile no one ask me. I "look" average to other whites.

This issue is complicated by facts like these. Many people judge by looks and accept by looks and that is in our subconscious. When you come from other states and add your unspoken prejudice and beliefs to this issue and act like it is all simple and clear cut-it is not so. Many conservatices are against this law. They are very into the constitution and see where this leads. Don't act like all liberals are against it and all conservatives are for it. it is not so. 70% of Amercans do not support this law.
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Old 05-03-2010, 01:20 PM
 
Location: Central Coast
2,014 posts, read 4,719,645 times
Reputation: 815
Quote:
Well, thank YOU very much. As a long time employee in the hospitality industry I really do appreciate you taking the food out of MY mouth by refusing to part with your $$s in Arizona. I had no part in making up this new immigration bill. I had no vote on it...yet. It wasn't me or the thousands of other hospitality workers who are pushing you away. It's YOU and only YOU because you think we are being hard on the ILLEGALS who come here and suck our state dry. Shame on you. But it's your right, right?
Please note that this poster returns the argument to illegals, as if the illegal immigration problem is worth subverting the Constitution for.

My first response to "Creepy" is, nothing in my argument is in support of illegals, or illegal immigration, It is a mystery to me why the pro AZ immigration law keep bringing the illegals issue up.

My advice to those like this poster who would be affected by the various boycotts comes down to two ways.
1. If you support the law, too bad for you.
2.If you do not support the law, vote.

The Supreme Court of the US will rule on this sooner or later. The strict constructionists on the court will agree with my argument.
The Constitution cannot be ignored or subverted to achieve a political end.

As a matter of curiosity I wonder how many people of the tea bagger persuasion that feel Obama, Pelosi, and Reid are attempting to subvert the constitution, are happy with the subverting of the Constitution by the Arizona Legislature.
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Old 05-03-2010, 01:26 PM
 
Location: Right where I want to be.
4,507 posts, read 7,823,618 times
Reputation: 3304
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarks View Post
Please note that this poster returns the argument to illegals, as if the illegal immigration problem is worth subverting the Constitution for.

My first response to "Creepy" is, nothing in my argument is in support of illegals, or illegal immigration, It is a mystery to me why the pro AZ immigration law keep bringing the illegals issue up.

My advice to those like this poster who would be affected by the various boycotts comes down to two ways.
1. If you support the law, too bad for you.
2.If you do not support the law, vote.

The Supreme Court of the US will rule on this sooner or later. The strict constructionists on the court will agree with my argument.
The Constitution cannot be ignored or subverted to achieve a political end.

As a matter of curiosity I wonder how many people of the tea bagger persuasion that feel Obama, Pelosi, and Reid are attempting to subvert the constitution, are happy with the subverting of the Constitution by the Arizona Legislature.
What does having a preference for a particular nasty sex act have to do with subverting the Constitution or Obama, Pelosi and Reid (who are rumored to be closet tea baggers themselves)??
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Old 05-03-2010, 01:26 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,144,640 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by blacknight04 View Post
Typical of the so called "anti-illegal" crowd to label anyone who doesn't agree with their point of view. Yet, they throw a fit when the same is done to them.
The difference is the truth about each side, isn't it?
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