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View Poll Results: Do you support the amended AZ bill?
Yes, I support the bill now that it has been restricted 12 29.27%
No, I support the old bill, they should never have changed it 8 19.51%
I wish they would have made a stronger bill 11 26.83%
I am still against the bill (please explain why) 10 24.39%
Voters: 41. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-03-2010, 11:12 AM
 
Location: Cumberland Co., TN
20,065 posts, read 20,559,906 times
Reputation: 20408

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Quote:
Originally Posted by tyanger View Post
I might be a dummy, but at least I'm doing it on purpose! :P

I'm still confused about what the difference is between a "lawful contact" and a "lawful stop"
Can anyone come up with some examples of "lawful stops" that would not also be considered "lawful contacts" and/or vice-versa?
Lawful contact you are approached and engaged by an officer. Lawful stop, you are driving/passenger in a vehicle and stopped by an officer.
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Old 05-03-2010, 11:17 AM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
85,041 posts, read 98,964,874 times
Reputation: 31517
Quote:
Originally Posted by tyanger View Post
I might be a dummy, but at least I'm doing it on purpose! :P

I'm still confused about what the difference is between a "lawful contact" and a "lawful stop"
Can anyone come up with some examples of "lawful stops" that would not also be considered "lawful contacts" and/or vice-versa?
I don't work in LE, so I'm just giving an educated guess here. "Lawful contact" could involve passing a cop on the street when you were out shopping, wating for the bus, walking to school, etc.. If the cop had reason to believe you were illegal, s/he could then ask you for ID. "Lawful stop" is stopping you for doing something the police have reason to believe is breaking the law, e.g. speeding in a car, suspicion of shoplifiting in a store, etc. There is another thread on this where I posted the difference between primary offenses, e.g. a "lawful stop" as I described above, and a secondary offense, e.g. getting stopped for speeding and then being asked for ID.
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Old 05-03-2010, 11:36 AM
 
31,385 posts, read 31,097,626 times
Reputation: 14878
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2mares View Post
Lawful contact you are approached and engaged by an officer. Lawful stop, you are driving/passenger in a vehicle and stopped by an officer.
You can try to circumscribe "lawful contact" as only pertaining to vehicle stops until you are blue in the face but as undefined by the original bill, lawful contact under the previous statutory language could mean anything and everything. That is bad law!

As the statutes now reads, "For any lawful stop, detention or arrest". Now we have statutory language which is not open to individual interpretation but one based upon court precedent. We know the parameters of a Terry Stop, we have a clear judicial record of what can lead to detention and arrest, something absent from the term "lawful contact".
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Old 05-03-2010, 11:53 AM
 
4,828 posts, read 6,796,902 times
Reputation: 620
Quote:
Originally Posted by summers73 View Post
Hmmm...let me think about this one.
I am pretty sure that pic is photoshopped.
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Old 05-03-2010, 11:54 AM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
20,009 posts, read 15,194,469 times
Reputation: 3739
Quote:
Originally Posted by blacknight04 View Post
I am pretty sure that pic is photoshopped.
Proof?
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Old 05-03-2010, 11:56 AM
 
Location: Sango, TN
24,889 posts, read 20,337,825 times
Reputation: 8606
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boompa View Post
this law makes being in the country illegally a State Criminal Offence. It then requires you arrest them.

Now what do you do? Under the old law you would just turn them over to ICE for deportation.
Now they will have to get a hearing and possibly a stste provided lawyer.
They will sit in our jails by the thousands awaiting hearings because they can't make bail.

DUUUUUH

460,000 Baloney Sandwiches please?
Only for the second offense, as I understand it.

The first time you're caught, you still just get deported. So, unless they are serial border crossers, no harm, no foul.
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Old 05-03-2010, 12:01 PM
 
Location: San Diego
32,829 posts, read 30,118,328 times
Reputation: 17711
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boompa View Post
this law makes being in the country illegally a State Criminal Offence. It then requires you arrest them.

Now what do you do? Under the old law you would just turn them over to ICE for deportation.
Now they will have to get a hearing and possibly a stste provided lawyer.
They will sit in our jails by the thousands awaiting hearings because they can't make bail.

DUUUUUH

460,000 Baloney Sandwiches please?

Wow, you've just described what we've been forced to do under the school lunch program for current children of Ilegals. How ironic.
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Old 05-03-2010, 12:28 PM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
20,009 posts, read 15,194,469 times
Reputation: 3739


Whoops! This guy seems to have forgotten about his ancestors killing Aztecs when migrating to Mexico.

Last edited by summers73; 05-03-2010 at 12:53 PM..
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Old 05-03-2010, 12:36 PM
 
Location: ...at a 3AM epiphany
2,206 posts, read 2,140,508 times
Reputation: 453
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boompa View Post
How long are you going to keep these 460,000 people in jail?
How many guards and jails will that require?
If one were to use common sense one would know they will not arrest 460,000 in a day, some arrested, some deported, some more arrested, more deported...

And besides, I hear tent cities are quite affordable for the state.
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Old 05-03-2010, 12:47 PM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
20,009 posts, read 15,194,469 times
Reputation: 3739
Quote:
Originally Posted by getout View Post
If one were to use common sense one would know they will not arrest 460,000 in a day, some arrested, some deported, some more arrested, more deported...

And besides, I hear tent cities are quite affordable for the state.
boompa sees no reason why you can't hold 460,000 "right wing extremists" and tax protesters in jail, according to his other rantings with regards to secession, etc. so I would have assumed that could be extended to illegal immigrants.
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