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Old 05-03-2010, 06:00 PM
 
Location: mancos
7,044 posts, read 6,168,477 times
Reputation: 4532

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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevK View Post
No, the law only applies to immigrants. It does not require American citizens to carry ID. It should be EQUAL under the law. Require EVERYBODY to have ID at all times. That is what most of the world does. And the police can demand to see it anytime they wish. In France they regularly do "ID checks" and you can be hauled to the pokey for 4 hours if you fail to show it. I always carry mine as does my family. I have no problem with it. But it is not right to require my wife to carry it and not me.
you are wrong wrong wrong. prove it. no id around here you get hauled in till they prove who you are. back in the 60's all young males had better have a draft card EXCEPT immigrants
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Old 05-03-2010, 06:05 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
84,960 posts, read 98,795,031 times
Reputation: 31371
Quote:
Originally Posted by parfleche View Post
always been that way.you need to have id or you can go to jail, otherwise every time i get busted i can just say i'm KevK and let you deal with it
You do not have to have ID on you at all times if you are a US citizen. Is it a good idea to carry ID? Yes.
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Old 05-03-2010, 06:10 PM
 
Location: Rational World Park
4,999 posts, read 3,752,895 times
Reputation: 2372
Quote:
Originally Posted by VLWH View Post
You are wrong. The law says a crime must have been committed or a suspected crime was committed in order for the officer to ask for ID. In that case no matter the race, they are going to identify you.
There in lies the inherint problem. What is a "suspected crime". Is that jaywalking? How about littering? Maybe playing your music too loud? Arizona is headed to becoming a police state. A state where an American can't go out for a jog or simply step a foot away from his/her home without papers..I'm sorry but that's not a free America. It's sad that the people who covet freedom so have silenced themselves in political solidarity.
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Old 05-03-2010, 06:15 PM
 
Location: San Diego North County
4,800 posts, read 7,687,743 times
Reputation: 3010
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevK View Post
No, the law only applies to immigrants. It does not require American citizens to carry ID. It should be EQUAL under the law. Require EVERYBODY to have ID at all times. That is what most of the world does. And the police can demand to see it anytime they wish. In France they regularly do "ID checks" and you can be hauled to the pokey for 4 hours if you fail to show it. I always carry mine as does my family. I have no problem with it. But it is not right to require my wife to carry it and not me.
Yes....

It does apply to citizens as well. If you are pulled over for a traffic violation, do you not have to produce a driver's license? If you are not able to do so, is that not reasonable suspicion to A) check your status and/or B) radio in for further information regarding your criminal background since you are already guilty of driving without a license?

C'mon people....read the law and quit flying off half-cocked, rambling about what ifs and consequences that are not even pertinent to the law as it is written.

Additionally, legal immigrants and VISA holders have been required by federal law to carry the paperwork/identification that proves that they are in the country legally since the 1940s. Now people are going to b*tch and moan and cry racism because Arizona actually intends to enforce said law? Ridiculous.
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Old 05-03-2010, 06:18 PM
 
5,903 posts, read 6,352,776 times
Reputation: 5447
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frozenyo View Post
There in lies the inherint problem. What is a "suspected crime". Is that jaywalking? How about littering? Maybe playing your music too loud? Arizona is headed to becoming a police state. A state where an American can't go out for a jog or simply step a foot away from his/her home without papers..I'm sorry but that's not a free America. It's sad that the people who covet freedom so have silenced themselves in political solidarity.
Uhhh.. Littering or jaywalking are crimes an officer must observe and in order for them to ticket you they must identify you. If you do not have your ID, they simply ask for your info (full name, address, DOB) then run it in the system. If the data does not jive, then they have the obligation to identify you no matter the race.

Stop buying into the police state crap that the media is selling.
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Old 05-03-2010, 06:20 PM
 
Location: mancos
7,044 posts, read 6,168,477 times
Reputation: 4532
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
You do not have to have ID on you at all times if you are a US citizen. Is it a good idea to carry ID? Yes.
if you are pulled over for a traffic infraction or other contact even if a US citizen you must prove who you are or they will. this is all the Arizona law says. do you support identity theft?
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Old 05-03-2010, 07:25 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
84,960 posts, read 98,795,031 times
Reputation: 31371
Quote:
Originally Posted by parfleche View Post
if you are pulled over for a traffic infraction or other contact even if a US citizen you must prove who you are or they will. this is all the Arizona law says. do you support identity theft?
Sure!(sarcasm). How do you get that from what I said? The law has been amended to make not having "papers" a secondary offense, in other words, you have to be stopped for doing something (not necessarily involving driving a car). Jaywalking might count, violating a noise ordinace might count, maybe having weeds in the yard. Such offenses would not necessarily require the offender to have their driver's license with them. I think it's time to post this from another forum:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
Well it is nice to know that I am joined by other willful dummies.

Republican House majority's Homeland Security research analyst, Rene Guillen:

[L]awful contact is definitely different than reasonable suspicion in terms of the initiation of the contact. So lawful contact is essentially any interaction a police officer may have with an individual through the normal legal, lawful course of the performance of their duties. So it wouldn't just be those suspected of crimes. It could be victims, witnesses or just people who are lawfully interacting with the police officer where through the course of that contact they are able to build reasonable suspicion and therefore inquire.

Marc Miller U of A law professor: "Lawful contact" could "mean any normal interaction a cop has with ordinary people... If a Hispanic asks a patrolman for directions, she could expose herself to immigration questions. If an officer walks up to someone and starts a conversation without detaining him -- something police are allowed to do -- he may have established 'lawful contact.' "

Tuscon police chief Roberto Villasenor: "I think where a lot of people are getting confused is those instances where we stop someone for a criminal violation, we have some reason for that stop and that contact, but I don't believe that's what we're talking about in regard to this law."This law is talking about in the course of any legal contact, as well as when we talk to a witness of a crime or when we talk to a victim of a crime. Those are legal contacts of law enforcement. Now we look at it in the context of those legal contacts.

...If in the course of them, we develop reasonable suspicion that the individual we're talking with is illegally in the country, we are mandated to take enforcement action. That's where the questions are coming up is how do you develop that reasonable suspicion that they're in the country illegally if they're there talking to you just about being a victim of a crime."
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Old 05-04-2010, 12:48 PM
 
Location: Jonquil City (aka Smyrna) Georgia- by Atlanta
16,248 posts, read 20,589,351 times
Reputation: 3587
Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis1979 View Post
Actually the wording of the law is anyone suspected of being an illegal immigrant, during legal contact, can be checked.

While the majority of illegals are Hispanic in Arizona, if anyone is suspected, they can be checked.

Arizona has said that a valid drivers license will qualify as a form of identification.

All legal immigrants are required to carry their green card with them at all times. Thats been that way for decades now.
And who would be "suspected" of being an illegal immigrant? A Mexican of course! And as far as carrying your PR card with you at all times, a green card is the LAST document you want to carry with you at all times because if it gets lost, stolen or you are robbed of it you will spend $600 and a minmum of 2 days getting a replacement for it. My wife is an immigrant as are others in my family and we kept the green cards at home locked in a fireproof safe. If a state issued ID or Driver's License is not good nuff for the cops, too friggin bad.
As I said, I got no problem with a law that says that the police should check the immigration status of EVERY person they stop. The problem is when the law says Mexicans only because nobody else is going to be suspected of being an illegal immigrant.
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Old 05-04-2010, 12:52 PM
 
Location: Jonquil City (aka Smyrna) Georgia- by Atlanta
16,248 posts, read 20,589,351 times
Reputation: 3587
Quote:
Originally Posted by VLWH View Post
You are wrong. The law says a crime must have been committed or a suspected crime was committed in order for the officer to ask for ID. In that case no matter the race, they are going to identify you.
I do not have a problem with the police doing random ID checks. It does not bother me a bit. But if they are going to do them, they need to check everybody. Just like they do here when they have a "DUI/Seatbelt Checkpoint" set up on a road. They check every vehicle and every drivers license and license tag that drives through the checkpoint. They don't waive the whites through and pull over all the Mexicans and blacks.
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Old 05-04-2010, 12:59 PM
 
Location: Jonquil City (aka Smyrna) Georgia- by Atlanta
16,248 posts, read 20,589,351 times
Reputation: 3587
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kele View Post
Yes....

It does apply to citizens as well. If you are pulled over for a traffic violation, do you not have to produce a driver's license? If you are not able to do so, is that not reasonable suspicion to A) check your status and/or B) radio in for further information regarding your criminal background since you are already guilty of driving without a license?

C'mon people....read the law and quit flying off half-cocked, rambling about what ifs and consequences that are not even pertinent to the law as it is written.

Additionally, legal immigrants and VISA holders have been required by federal law to carry the paperwork/identification that proves that they are in the country legally since the 1940s. Now people are going to b*tch and moan and cry racism because Arizona actually intends to enforce said law? Ridiculous.
If you do not have a driver's license than the police should haul you to the station and take your fingerprints and hold you until the FBI sends back your ID. At that time, no matter WHO you are, the police should check your immigration status and, if you are found to be here illegally, turn you over to the INS so you can be promptly deported. My only problem is when the law says people the "officer suspects" of being here illegally. Officers of the law should never be given the ability to decide who they "suspect" because they will always use race as the determining factor. The Arizona law should simply state that A- it is illgeal to be in Arizona if it is illegal to be in the USA and B- that whenever a law officer stops a person or person(s) that they shall check the immigration status of EVERY person they stop regardless of that person's race. You know Canadians can sneak in too and you cannot tell an illegal Canadian from a regular American. They look and talk just the same as we do.
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