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Old 05-04-2010, 08:01 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,848,271 times
Reputation: 3028

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicman View Post
Even for people who live there for a long time, if they work in blue collar industries often they simply don't have the time to learn a new language. Adults cannot learn by simply being exposed to English - they have to practice and study the language. They can use being surrounded by English as an advantage to study it, but first and foremost they have to work in their job.
She was working so hard that she didnít have time to learn English. But, she did find the time to give birth to 10 anchors in 15 years. While she was on her numerous maternity leaves, she could have studied Rosetta Stone. Chances are she has never worked a day since she arrived.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicman View Post
- How do you define rudimentary English? Is it enough to order food from a restaurant? Read Kindergarten-level books? How much?
Kindergarten-level English would suffice. At least then she could say, ďI am here for my freebies.Ē

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicman View Post
- It is third world style social security and probably also Catholic beliefs.
But, the U.S. isnít a third-world country; at least not yet. If they want to practice third-world social security, they should remain in the third-world, and not come here to suck at the government teat. Iím sorry, but common sense must kick in at some point. If they are complying with Catholic dictates, the Catholic Church should support them, not U.S. taxpayers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicman View Post
- the federal welfare laws were changed in 1996 to make that not happen.
Would you mind quoting the federal law that prevents illegals from receiving welfare benefits, WIC, subsidized housing, and Medicaid for their US-born children?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicman View Post
- Minimum wage is probably one of those facets that may be decided by both the feds and the states. But there are aspects that absolutely only have to be within the realm of the federal government.
But, thatís not what you said. You said states can NOT have their own laws, because they would then usurp federal. In any case, the AZ law mirrors the federal law; so they are only enforcing the law, not usurping federal law.
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Old 05-04-2010, 10:59 AM
 
4,310 posts, read 7,924,136 times
Reputation: 1572
1. To be fair, many public library systems do offer access to language software. I'm not familiar with the maternity leave systems offered by employers.

But even when there is time to learn, there may be something else at play. This page "The Immigrants' View of Education" hosts a Los Angeles Times article that talks about fatalistic anti-intellectual attitudes held by some immigrant families.

Quote: "It reflects a deeply held belief, shared by many poor families, that to study is useless, because, as the popular wisdom has it, "no one in the family was born for studying," which is another way of saying that "either you are born successful, in the right social class and in the proper family, or you will always be a failure.""

They come to the US to make more money than they could in Mexico or Central America, but the campesinos do not leave behind their social attitudes. They live in a different world from the wealthy Mexicans and Central Americans who come to the US.

2. "Would you mind quoting the federal law that prevents illegals from receiving welfare benefits, WIC, subsidized housing, and Medicaid for their US-born children? " - the children themselves aren't illegal. While they can receive welfare for US-born children, is it enough to become a "welfare king" or "welfare queen" and not work? AFDC was a benefit that illegals could get, but that was replaced in 1996. Also which states allow illegals to get subsidized housing? In most neighborhoods with a lot of illegals, they live in cheap private apartments.

3. "But, thatís not what you said. You said states can NOT have their own laws, because they would then usurp federal. In any case, the AZ law mirrors the federal law; so they are only enforcing the law, not usurping federal law"

What I said was: "It doesn't matter how good or bad the feds are; the state can't try to do it better, because then it usurps the authority of the federal government. The state has to accept its role." - What I meant is that the state cannot try to take the role of the immigration enforcer from the federal government. The state cannot try to "relieve" the federal government of that particular duty.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
She was working so hard that she didnít have time to learn English. But, she did find the time to give birth to 10 anchors in 15 years. While she was on her numerous maternity leaves, she could have studied Rosetta Stone. Chances are she has never worked a day since she arrived.



Kindergarten-level English would suffice. At least then she could say, ďI am here for my freebies.Ē



But, the U.S. isnít a third-world country; at least not yet. If they want to practice third-world social security, they should remain in the third-world, and not come here to suck at the government teat. Iím sorry, but common sense must kick in at some point. If they are complying with Catholic dictates, the Catholic Church should support them, not U.S. taxpayers.



Would you mind quoting the federal law that prevents illegals from receiving welfare benefits, WIC, subsidized housing, and Medicaid for their US-born children?



But, thatís not what you said. You said states can NOT have their own laws, because they would then usurp federal. In any case, the AZ law mirrors the federal law; so they are only enforcing the law, not usurping federal law.
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Old 05-04-2010, 11:35 AM
 
4,803 posts, read 3,149,830 times
Reputation: 1103
Quote:
Originally Posted by floridasandy View Post
the kicker to that story is that BOTH PARENTS ARE UNEMPLOYED.

who says that illegal immigrants don't come here and TAKE from our country and our citizens?

arizona will be a great state to live in when they get rid of these spongers. i feel sorry for the citizens of the state which winds up with them.



let mexico figure out how to support their own citizens.
Another reality to this mess - There are men that have girlfriends on this side of the border and a wife back home - populating BOTH sides of the border!
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Old 05-04-2010, 12:06 PM
 
Location: Southern Arizona
9,310 posts, read 25,749,724 times
Reputation: 10574
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redraven View Post
CBS news tonight interviewed a woman in Phoenix, who is an admitted "Undocumented Alien". This person had been living in Phoenix for 15 years, and had 10 children who are United States Citizens, but she needed an interpreter to talk to the reporter! She stated she did not consider herself or her husband to be "criminals" because "criminals" kill people. She and her husband were now unemployed, so they loaded up their vehicle and headed for Colorado.
More of the typical lopsided Media BooHoo BS, Redraven.

Two ILLEGALS here for 15 years with TEN Anchor Babies yet they cannot speak English?

Maybe the CBS report should have included how much WELFARE they have sucked up over the last 15 years. Also, how about including how much they have paid in taxes, if anything over those years.

Now they are arrogantly admitting they plan to move to Colorado to be ILLEGALS there? Obviously these people have no respect for the sovereignty of the United States.

SORRY, their plight is not a result of SB1070 . . . their plight is directly related to their blatant and arrogant disrespect of our immigration laws.
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Old 05-04-2010, 12:21 PM
 
Location: San Diego
32,957 posts, read 30,215,777 times
Reputation: 17764
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bummer View Post
More of the typical lopsided Media BooHoo BS, Redraven.

Two ILLEGALS here for 15 years with TEN Anchor Babies yet they cannot speak English?

Maybe the CBS report should have included how much WELFARE they have sucked up over the last 15 years. Also, how about including how much they have paid in taxes, if anything over those years.

Now they are arrogantly admitting they plan to move to Colorado to be ILLEGALS there? Obviously these people have no respect for the sovereignty of the United States.

SORRY, their plight is not a result of SB1070 . . . their plight is directly related to their blatant and arrogant disrespect of our immigration laws.
That and the parasitic behavior of supporting 10 kids on tax payer wallets.
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Old 05-04-2010, 12:53 PM
 
16,092 posts, read 35,859,317 times
Reputation: 6264
Why would she ever have to learn English? Everything is in Spanish..now if anyone should complain it would be those who speak other languages which are not 'favored' therefore they have to learn English to function.
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Old 05-04-2010, 03:13 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,848,271 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicman View Post
1. To be fair, many public library systems do offer access to language software. I'm not familiar with the maternity leave systems offered by employers.

But even when there is time to learn, there may be something else at play. This page "The Immigrants' View of Education" hosts a Los Angeles Times article that talks about fatalistic anti-intellectual attitudes held by some immigrant families.

Quote: "It reflects a deeply held belief, shared by many poor families, that to study is useless, because, as the popular wisdom has it, "no one in the family was born for studying," which is another way of saying that "either you are born successful, in the right social class and in the proper family, or you will always be a failure.""

They come to the US to make more money than they could in Mexico or Central America, but the campesinos do not leave behind their social attitudes. They live in a different world from the wealthy Mexicans and Central Americans who come to the US.

2. "Would you mind quoting the federal law that prevents illegals from receiving welfare benefits, WIC, subsidized housing, and Medicaid for their US-born children? " - the children themselves aren't illegal. While they can receive welfare for US-born children, is it enough to become a "welfare king" or "welfare queen" and not work? AFDC was a benefit that illegals could get, but that was replaced in 1996. Also which states allow illegals to get subsidized housing? In most neighborhoods with a lot of illegals, they live in cheap private apartments.

3. "But, thatís not what you said. You said states can NOT have their own laws, because they would then usurp federal. In any case, the AZ law mirrors the federal law; so they are only enforcing the law, not usurping federal law"

What I said was: "It doesn't matter how good or bad the feds are; the state can't try to do it better, because then it usurps the authority of the federal government. The state has to accept its role." - What I meant is that the state cannot try to take the role of the immigration enforcer from the federal government. The state cannot try to "relieve" the federal government of that particular duty.
Yes, I realize an education is generally not valued among the peasant population. However, if they are truly coming here to seek a better life, they must realize if they remain ignorant and continue to have children they cannot afford, they will not succeed in this country.

One of the most egregious illegal alien practices is the birth-for-profit scam. Many deliberately give birth on U.S. soil to avail themselves of benefits reserved for citizens. Of course others accomplish this through fraud and ID theft.

Illegal aliens do live in subsidized housing. Some become eligible because they have U.S.-born children, but not all. Case in point, Obamaís illegal alien aunt.

Quote:
Untold thousands of illegal immigrants live in public housing at a time when hundreds of thousands of citizens and legal residents are stuck waiting years for a spot.
Quote:
It doesn't include housing funded by state and local governments, where eligibility requirements vary. Massachusetts, where Obama's aunt occupied one of about 50,000 state-funded units, doesn't ask immigration status under a 1977 federal consent decree in a class-action lawsuit that prohibits the state from denying the benefit to illegal immigrants.

Other illegal immigrants may live in public housing without notifying authorities.
The entire family is eligible if they have one U.S.-born child. This could also include extended family.

Quote:
The federal government, which funds the lion's share of the nation's public housing, requires only that illegal immigrants share a home with at least one family member who is in the country legally and pay their share of the rent.
Many illegal immigrants live in public housing - USATODAY.com
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Old 05-04-2010, 03:18 PM
 
Location: John & Ken-ville
13,692 posts, read 15,169,534 times
Reputation: 9493
It's obvious they come here for free services that they can't get in their own country.

Why else POP OUT 10 KIDS you can't POSSIBLY FEED OR EDUCATE!
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Old 05-04-2010, 03:19 PM
 
470 posts, read 389,921 times
Reputation: 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicman View Post
Apparently many blue collar immigrants, legal or not, don't become good with the native language. That is what their children do.



Yeah, he's a slumlord - But slumlords have cheap housing, and people are willing to put up with slummish conditions to have a cheap place to live.



But the question is whether it is Arizona's place to take the initiative. If the federal government doesn't do a good job with, say, its navy, does this mean Arizona should form its own navy and try to keep it to federal law?

It doesn't matter how good or bad the feds are; the state can't try to do it better, because then it usurps the authority of the federal government. The state has to accept its role.
The state can enact any law it wants to. There are many federal laws that have been made state laws. BTW, Arizona has a duty to protect it's citizens from murder and kidnapping do they not?
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Old 05-04-2010, 03:20 PM
 
Location: San Diego
32,957 posts, read 30,215,777 times
Reputation: 17764
Question, how can someone be "displaced" when they left their Country? Wouldn't they be transient by definition? Isn't the original "displacing" coming by choice when they leave their family the first time?
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