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Old 06-13-2007, 10:25 AM
 
Location: So. Dak.
13,495 posts, read 33,426,829 times
Reputation: 15044

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Just wanted to share this response with you. It was written by a U.S. Senator from Florida in response to a letter he received from one of my family members. I've omitted the Senator's name, but I think he makes a lot of sense. What do you think?







Thank you for taking the time to contact me. I appreciate hearing from you regarding comprehensive immigration reform and would like to respond to your concerns.

As you may know, on June 7, 2007, the Senate was unable to reach an agreement on the Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act (S. 1348) and the Senate Majority Leader has set aside S. 1348, for the time being. Delaying comprehensive reform does a disservice to America. I remain committed to working together with my colleagues to produce a tough but fair and workable piece of legislation that President Bush can sign into law during this Congress.

To do this, we must secure the border first. The first section of S. 1348 mandates that border security and worksite-enforcement benchmarks must be met before other elements of the legislation are implemented. This legislation will direct the Department of Homeland Security to complete construction of hundreds of miles of additional double layered fencing and create 200 miles of vehicle barriers on our border with Mexico. The department will hire and train 18,000 border patrol agents. In addition, this bill provides for surveillance technologies to enhance our ability to monitor the border, such as, 70 ground –based radar and camera towers on the southern border and 4 unmanned aerial vehicles. However, physically securing the border will not solve the entire problem. Employers will be required to verify the work eligibility of all employees using an employment eligibility verification system, while all workers will be required to present stronger and more verifiable identification documents. Tough new anti-fraud measures will be implemented and stiff penalties imposed on employers who break the law.

After the border has been certified secure by the Secretary of the Department of Homeland Security and the employment verification system is in place, the remaining provisions of the bill will go into effect. To address the labor shortage in industries with a demonstrated need such as, the Florida Citrus and Hospitality Industries, a guest worker program will be implemented. The purpose of this program is to relieve pressure on the border and provide a lawful way to meet the needs of our economy. The proposal creates a temporary worker program to fill jobs Americans are not doing. To ensure this program is truly temporary, workers will be limited to three two-year terms, with at least a year spent outside the United States between each term. A small percentage of temporary workers will be allowed to bring immediate family members only if they have the financial ability to support them and they are covered by health insurance.

Additionally, this legislation does away with a relative- based immigration system or “Chain Migration” and establishes a new merit-based system to select future immigrants based on the skills and attributes they will bring to the United States. Under the merit-based system, future immigrants applying for permanent residency in the U.S. will be assigned points for skills, education, and other attributes that further our national interest including: ability to speak English; level of schooling, including added points for training in science, math, and technology; employment in a specialty or high-demand field; employer endorsement; and certain family ties to the U.S. This merit- based system will enhance and ensure American competitiveness for the future and put American immigration policies in line with other industrialized nations.


It is my firm belief that addressing border security and cracking down on unscrupulous employers while doing nothing to address those already living here illegally would amount to de facto amnesty for those 12 million. Further, it is in the United States’ national security interest to learn the identity of these individuals. Illegal immigrants who come out of the shadows will be given probationary status. Once the border security and enforcement benchmarks are met, they must pass a background check, remain employed, maintain a clean criminal record, pay an initial fine, determined by the size of their household as well as a state impact fee, and receive a counterfeit-proof biometric card to apply for a work visa or "Z visa." Some years later, these Z visa holders will be eligible to apply for limited permanent residency, but only after paying an additional $4,000 fine; completing accelerated English requirements and demonstrating knowledge of American civics; going to the back of the line while the current green card backlog clears; returning to their home country to file their application; and demonstrating merit under the merit-based system. It is important to note that a petitioner for or holder of a Z visa can be deported at any time if a disqualifying factor is identified during background checks, such factors include but are not limited to-- a criminal conviction, gang affiliation or terrorist activity.

With my full support, this bill declares that English is the national language of the United States and calls on the United States Government to preserve and enhance it, as well as enacting accelerated English requirements for many immigrants.

Please know that I will keep your concerns in mind as the Senate debates S.1348. I am aware that Congress has failed to oversee the enforcement of immigration law in the past. I believe that S. 1348 provides the Executive Branch, American employers and people aspiring to work in America or become Americans with a clear and workable policy that is efficient and fair. This is an important national security, economic, and humanitarian challenge, and I know the American people are looking to Congress for action and oversight.
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Old 06-13-2007, 10:35 AM
 
Location: Arizona
5,396 posts, read 6,915,883 times
Reputation: 1197
Cracking down on border security has increased the illegal population because the immigrants no longer leave again seasonally.

http://www.freetrade.org/pubs/pas/tpa-029.pdf
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Old 06-13-2007, 11:03 AM
 
Location: San Diego North County
4,800 posts, read 7,687,743 times
Reputation: 3010
"I believe that S. 1348 provides the Executive Branch, American employers and people aspiring to work in America or become Americans with a clear and workable policy that is efficient and fair."

What?

Jammie - I usually agree with you, but S. 1348 is so full of passages that will be devastating to American citizens, that any elected representative who believes it to be a workable or equitable solution to illegal immigration should be feared! Please take the time to read what I've posted about this bill. If this doesn't make your brain ache, I don't know what will.

28 Reasons To Kill The Bill Now!!!!!!!!!

1. Security doesn’t come first in this bill. This bill would immediately legalize illegal aliens that are currently in the country. The only way Congress will actually see to it that the border security and enforcement provisions in the bill will be implemented is if they have to do them before they even consider an amnesty for the people who are here.

2. Illegal aliens won’t have to pay back taxes — where do we get the same deal? The whole idea that illegal aliens shouldn’t have to pay the taxes they already owe for working in the United States is utterly and completely offensive because it actually gives them a privilege that American citizens aren’t getting: forgiveness for taxes owed to the IRS.

3. If passed, this bill will make taxpayers pay the legal bills for illegal aliens seeking amnesty. Tucked away is a provision that would allow lawyers in the federally-funded legal services program to represent illegal aliens, which they are presently barred from doing.

4. This bill rewards illegal aliens for breaking our laws. There are tens of millions of people who respect our laws and our country, waiting patiently, in line, often in their home countries, to get a chance to come here. Under this bill, illegal aliens will immediately be eligible for a “Z Visa” which allows them to work, go to school, and — this is important — stay here for the rest of their lives if they so choose because there is no limit on the number of times it can be renewed.

5. The bill gives the government only one business day to conduct a background check to determine whether an applicant is a criminal or a terrorist. It is impossible, of course, to determine in a single day whether someone is a terrorist or a criminal.

6. In the bill Section 601(g)(2), illegal-alien gang members would be eligible for amnesty merely by signing a “renunciation of gang affiliation.”

7. Gang-bangers and other criminals, who have been ordered to leave the United States by an immigration judge but defy the ruling, are called absconders. Section 601(d)(1)(I) permits U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services to grant an absconder a Z visa anyway if he can show that being forced to leave the United States “would result in extreme hardship” to the alien, his spouse, parent or child.

8. The bill effectively shuts down our immigration-court system. If an alien in the removal process is eligible for the Z visa, the immigration judge must close the proceedings and offer the alien the chance to apply for the amnesty.

9. If ICE officials apprehend an alien who appears eligible for the Z visa (in other words, just about any illegal alien), they can’t detain him. Instead, ICE must help him apply for the Z visa.

Rather than initiating removal proceedings, ICE will be initiating amnesty applications. It’s like turning the Drug Enforcement Agency into a needle-distribution network.

10. To qualify for the Z-visa amnesty, an illegal alien need only have a job (or be the parent, spouse, or child of someone with a job) and come up with a scrap of paper suggesting he was in the country before Jan. 1 of this year. Any bank statement, pay stub, or similarly forgeable record will do.

Expect a mass influx unlike anything this country has seen before, once the 12-month period for accepting Z visa applications begins. These rules are an open invitation to sneak in and present a fraudulent piece of paper indicating that you were already here.

11. As promised, the bill will legalize most of the 12 million to 20 million illegal aliens now in the country via a new “Z visa.” Each would pay $5,000 - only slightly more than the going rate to be smuggled into America. This is not up front. They will have eight years to pay it back.

12. Supporters of the bill call the Z visa “temporary” - neglecting to mention that it can be renewed indefinitely until the visa holder dies. Thus, we have the country’s first permanent temporary visa. On top of that, it’s a super-visa - allowing the holder to work, attend college or do just about anything else.

Are you a law-abiding alien who’s interested in switching to this privileged status? Sorry. Only illegal aliens can qualify.

13. The bill increases legal migration by at least 50 percent over the next decade by granting green cards to all the remote relatives who are in the chain migration categories, a number estimated at 750,000 to 900,000 a year. That is triple the current number of 250,000. Giving green cards to millions of additional relatives ensures that legal immigration will continue to grow as this larger pool of permanent residents brings in spouses.

14. The bill claims that bench marks must be met before amnesty/guest-worker provisions go into effect. But the bench marks fail to require that the U.S.-Mexico border be closed, fail to require that the border fence be completed as mandated by Congress in October and fail to require that the Department of Homeland Security implement the entry-exit visa system so Americans can know if visitors and guest workers actually leave.

The border security part of the bill calls for a 370-mile-long fence on the U.S./Mexico border. That is only half as long as the 700-mile-long fence ordered by the Secure Fence Act passed overwhelmingly by Congress and ostentatiously signed by the president in front of TV cameras just before the November 2006 election.

15. Another bench mark is that “tools” will be provided to prevent illegal immigrants from getting jobs, including requirements for identification standards and an employee verification system. But the bill lacks a requirement that anybody actually use the tools.

16. The costs of the Senate immigration bill are mind-boggling. Unbelievably, the Senate has made no attempt to estimate this costs or how to how to pay them. The Heritage Foundation’s Robert Rector puts a potential price tag on this bill of $2.5 trillion, which is five times the cost of the Iraq war.

17. At least 60 percent of illegal immigrants lack a high school diploma, which means they will work low-wage jobs, pay little or no income tax, and be heavy users of our schools and means-tested social benefits such as Medicaid, school lunches, Women, Infants and Children Program, subsidized housing, the Earned Income Tax Credit, and free legal counsel.

18. Fiscal costs would go up dramatically after amnesty recipients reach retirement. Each elderly low-skill immigrant imposes a net cost - that is benefits minus taxes - on U.S. taxpayers of about $17,000 per year, according to the Heritage Foundation. These costs would hit Social Security and Medicare at the very time Social Security is expected to go into crisis.

19. Section 413 calls on Congress to “accelerate the implementation” of the Security and Prosperity Partnership - announced by Bush in Waco, Texas, in 2005 - so that the United States can “improve the standard of living in Mexico.” Do U.S. taxpayers want to take on the awesome economic burden of solving poverty problems in Mexico?

20. The Senate immigration bill states that the United States want to increase access to credit for “poor and under-served populations in Mexico,” and expand efforts “to reduce the transaction costs of remittance flows” from the U.S. to Mexico now running at $23 billion a year. That is money made in the US but transferred out of our economy.

21. The Senate bill also puts the United States into a “partnership” with Mexico for “increasing health care access for poor and under-served populations in Mexico,” for “assisting Mexico in increasing its emergency and trauma health care facilities,” and for “expanding prenatal care” in the border region. Do U.S. taxpayers want to take on the awesome economic burden of solving problems in Mexico?

22. The Senate bill authorizes 4,000 new Border Patrol agents, but doesn’t require that they be trained or deployed.

23. Illegal Aliens will receive instate tuition. Illegal aliens would receive a taxpayer subsidy worth tens of thousands of dollars and would be treated better than U.S. citizens from out of state, who must pay three to four times as much to attend college. In an era of limited educational resources and rising tuitions, U.S. citizens, not aliens openly violating federal law, should be first in line to receive education subsidies.

24.Health standards ignored – Z-Visa holders are not required to be given medical examinations and immunizations. Z-Visa applicants and permenant residents are two peas off the same pod. Both can live in the USA as long as they want. Permenant residents are required to be given a medical examination and immunized but Z-Visa holders are not. All aliens, including Z-Visa holders should be required to be given medical examinations and immunized. They are living and breathing in our country just as permanent residents. The health and safety issues are one and the same. TB or Leprosy anyone?

25.“There are no serious assimilation components to the legislation.” Dual citizenship, naturalized Americans voting here and overseas, non-English classrooms and multilingual ballots all thrive, despite the bill’s “comprehensive” scope. “Assimilation” appears only once in this legislation.

26. The amnestee doesn’t have to know squat in English to get probationary status or a Z visa. After four years when seeking to renew the Z visa the first time, he only has to take — not pass, just take — the naturalization language test or be on a waiting list for English classes. “Learn English” only happens after eight years, and then it’s not actual mastery of the language.

27. As stated above in #13 “The bill increases legal migration by at least 50 percent over the next decade….” Yet, when asked in a Gallup poll what level of immigration do Americans want, overwhelmingly they say less (46%) or same (34%). While only 16% want more. The US Census Bureau in 1999 projected The USA’s population will double in less then 100 years from 300 million to 600 million. The majority of that increase will be from legal immigration, illegal immigration, plus both their descendants. This is completely against what the American people want. When do we start double decking our freeways Mr. President?

28. If Amnesty passes, 12-20 million illegal aliens would be immediately granted probationary legal status. Processing these individuals would be the responsibility of the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS). Estimates are, if amnesty is given to just 12 million illegal aliens within the year allowed for applications, that would mean an average of 48,000 amnesty applications each day for USCIS’s 3,000 adjudicators. Add an additional 200,000 guest workers applications to the mix. That would be in addition to the 6.3 million (2005) legal applications and the backlog of several million unresolved applications the USCIS has responsibility over.

The Senate’s proposal would vastly expand USCIS’s workload but do little to ensure that the agency is capable of handling the task.

Last edited by Kele; 06-13-2007 at 11:18 AM..
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Old 06-13-2007, 11:17 AM
 
3,712 posts, read 5,709,656 times
Reputation: 1285
9. If ICE officials apprehend an alien who appears eligible for the Z visa (in other words, he is a protein-based life form), they can’t detain him. Instead, ICE must help him apply for the Z visa.

Illegal immigration will not be controlled until it is very clear that entering the US illegally is not going to result in being granted citizenship.
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Old 06-13-2007, 12:47 PM
 
Location: So. Dak.
13,495 posts, read 33,426,829 times
Reputation: 15044
Oh I totally agree that the bill in this present form shouldn't even be a "bill". It should be thrown in the garbage. But from what I'm gathering that this Sen. is saying, he'd like to see a new bill drafted that would make the illegals go back home. He said that they could stand in line behind the people who have already applied for citizenship and apply for it from their home country. He also stated that they (if they were self supporting, not crimnals, spoke English, learned Civic, etc.) could still have a chance at citizenship in the future. I think that would eliminate a lot of the illegals since none of them are interested in that type of life. I also like the part about giving them green cards to work here, BUT that they must return to their home country and stay there for at least a year inbetween. IF that was monitored closely, it could work. And it also looks like employers could be in for a lot of problems if they don't do this legally. I'm not saying that his thoughts are perfect, but they're such an improvement over what they're considering now. They've got to come up with something better then the present bill they're considering and it seems like this guy may have a few good thoughts on it.
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Old 06-13-2007, 12:52 PM
 
Location: VA
786 posts, read 4,227,438 times
Reputation: 1071
Both Florida Senators voted for Amnesty. I find that interesting in a State being destroyed by illegal immigration.

The Senators points were interesting but did not tell anyone about the 20 million people being eligible for a Z Visa immediately. If you read his letter you would think there is no Amnesty until the benchmarks are achieved. This is not true.

Those 28 points against the bill are so interesting. I have never seen any supporters argue they are not true, but just gets into slogans and tells us a variety of "talking points" How about a true debate?
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Old 06-13-2007, 12:54 PM
 
1,393 posts, read 2,490,169 times
Reputation: 413
I say find and fine and jail all employers that hire them...without jobs alot of them may go home and for those that don't, make their life a living hell....
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Old 06-13-2007, 04:19 PM
 
Location: Florida
540 posts, read 1,105,031 times
Reputation: 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jammie View Post
Just wanted to share this response with you. It was written by a U.S. Senator from Florida in response to a letter he received from one of my family members. I've omitted the Senator's name, but I think he makes a lot of sense. What do you think?







Thank you for taking the time to contact me. I appreciate hearing from you regarding comprehensive immigration reform and would like to respond to your concerns.

As you may know, on June 7, 2007, the Senate was unable to reach an agreement on the Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act (S. 1348) and the Senate Majority Leader has set aside S. 1348, for the time being. Delaying comprehensive reform does a disservice to America. I remain committed to working together with my colleagues to produce a tough but fair and workable piece of legislation that President Bush can sign into law during this Congress.

To do this, we must secure the border first. The first section of S. 1348 mandates that border security and worksite-enforcement benchmarks must be met before other elements of the legislation are implemented. This legislation will direct the Department of Homeland Security to complete construction of hundreds of miles of additional double layered fencing and create 200 miles of vehicle barriers on our border with Mexico. The department will hire and train 18,000 border patrol agents. In addition, this bill provides for surveillance technologies to enhance our ability to monitor the border, such as, 70 ground –based radar and camera towers on the southern border and 4 unmanned aerial vehicles. However, physically securing the border will not solve the entire problem. Employers will be required to verify the work eligibility of all employees using an employment eligibility verification system, while all workers will be required to present stronger and more verifiable identification documents. Tough new anti-fraud measures will be implemented and stiff penalties imposed on employers who break the law.

After the border has been certified secure by the Secretary of the Department of Homeland Security and the employment verification system is in place, the remaining provisions of the bill will go into effect. To address the labor shortage in industries with a demonstrated need such as, the Florida Citrus and Hospitality Industries, a guest worker program will be implemented. The purpose of this program is to relieve pressure on the border and provide a lawful way to meet the needs of our economy. The proposal creates a temporary worker program to fill jobs Americans are not doing. To ensure this program is truly temporary, workers will be limited to three two-year terms, with at least a year spent outside the United States between each term. A small percentage of temporary workers will be allowed to bring immediate family members only if they have the financial ability to support them and they are covered by health insurance.

Additionally, this legislation does away with a relative- based immigration system or “Chain Migration” and establishes a new merit-based system to select future immigrants based on the skills and attributes they will bring to the United States. Under the merit-based system, future immigrants applying for permanent residency in the U.S. will be assigned points for skills, education, and other attributes that further our national interest including: ability to speak English; level of schooling, including added points for training in science, math, and technology; employment in a specialty or high-demand field; employer endorsement; and certain family ties to the U.S. This merit- based system will enhance and ensure American competitiveness for the future and put American immigration policies in line with other industrialized nations.


It is my firm belief that addressing border security and cracking down on unscrupulous employers while doing nothing to address those already living here illegally would amount to de facto amnesty for those 12 million. Further, it is in the United States’ national security interest to learn the identity of these individuals. Illegal immigrants who come out of the shadows will be given probationary status. Once the border security and enforcement benchmarks are met, they must pass a background check, remain employed, maintain a clean criminal record, pay an initial fine, determined by the size of their household as well as a state impact fee, and receive a counterfeit-proof biometric card to apply for a work visa or "Z visa." Some years later, these Z visa holders will be eligible to apply for limited permanent residency, but only after paying an additional $4,000 fine; completing accelerated English requirements and demonstrating knowledge of American civics; going to the back of the line while the current green card backlog clears; returning to their home country to file their application; and demonstrating merit under the merit-based system. It is important to note that a petitioner for or holder of a Z visa can be deported at any time if a disqualifying factor is identified during background checks, such factors include but are not limited to-- a criminal conviction, gang affiliation or terrorist activity.

With my full support, this bill declares that English is the national language of the United States and calls on the United States Government to preserve and enhance it, as well as enacting accelerated English requirements for many immigrants.

Please know that I will keep your concerns in mind as the Senate debates S.1348. I am aware that Congress has failed to oversee the enforcement of immigration law in the past. I believe that S. 1348 provides the Executive Branch, American employers and people aspiring to work in America or become Americans with a clear and workable policy that is efficient and fair. This is an important national security, economic, and humanitarian challenge, and I know the American people are looking to Congress for action and oversight.
I got the same one. Still do not trust them. Why don't they just enforce the laws first?
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Old 06-13-2007, 07:03 PM
 
398 posts, read 1,265,158 times
Reputation: 239
Unconditional mass deportation first, then the rest. The law is the law. They are already written from many years ago, but not enforced. I don't see why we are forced to modify what we already have and works well if applied.

That's why Deportation first, or no deal.
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Old 06-13-2007, 07:33 PM
 
Location: So. Dak.
13,495 posts, read 33,426,829 times
Reputation: 15044
OK, first of all I should change the title of this thread cause it no longer applies to how I feel about this man. But in all fairness, I'll leave it as is and just post this now.

I normally always trust a few of you here and Kele is one of them. I reread what Martinez had written and he sure smoked me. I honestly thought that he was searching for a compromise that would make everyone just a bit happy compared to the bill that is still being looked at.

So, as I was reading my local paper, I discovered just what Dingler said. He actually is for the passing of this joke of a bill. I always have to double check on things because politicians just really confuse me and this one sure did.

I did learn from reading my local paper that my own lawmakers aren't for the Amnesty bill. Neither are my neighboring states of Neb. and No. Dak. But we have a Senator (So. Dak) who was very ill and it doesn't sound like he'll be voting on this, BUT he was originally for it and that really disappointed me. Guess we all need to remember these guys when we go out to vote the next time.

And it IS just totally shocking that some of the Southern lawmakers could even be considering voting for this. It would make more sense that the Northern states wouldn't realize how bad it is so they wouldn't be as aware or concerned. I just don't understand it at all.
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