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Old 05-07-2010, 05:15 PM
 
Location: Mastic Beach
752 posts, read 1,244,875 times
Reputation: 302

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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
When you are caught speeding where an arrest is not warranted are you saying that is another case where LE has no right to ask you for your DL/I.D.? That is what it would mean if the lingo was changed to "during the course of arrest".
he has a point, if you stop and ask a cop for directions and they ask you about your citizenship that's pretty messed up.
if they catch you doing something wrong and ask...that's different.

 
Old 05-07-2010, 05:27 PM
 
Location: SouthCentral Texas
3,855 posts, read 4,097,346 times
Reputation: 957
The 4th Amendment was written to stop what in the old country was the Right of the Realm to question and imprision you no mater where you were.

In 1215 the noble men had the Kings agree that they should have more rights the average clone. But the precedent started of ...A Mans Home is his Castle"...meaning the Realm had rights to you front door. This was good in times if peace, but in times of conflect, the rule was out the door.

The Founding Fathers of the New World took the A man's home is his Castle, to the Idea that a person should be secure in their person, possesions and property. Secure in their person, is the right for a person not to be questioned, just because the are out walking late at night. Because a person out and about, and has committed no crime, then what is the justification to ask him his business.

The Arizona Law fixed the Flaw in the law that was..."Lawfull Contact" to say contact durring a stop for a suspected commission of a crime.
Now a LEO could jepardize the entire stop if he doesnt offer the suspect his "Mirranda" rights prior to asking him for immigration status. [5th amendment]
 
Old 05-07-2010, 05:27 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,180,215 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by minesbroken View Post
he has a point, if you stop and ask a cop for directions and they ask you about your citizenship that's pretty messed up.
if they catch you doing something wrong and ask...that's different.
Why would a cop ask you for your I.D. if you are only asking for directions? The lawful contact would have to be on the part of the cop initiating the contact not the civilian asking for directions.

Last edited by chicagonut; 05-07-2010 at 05:42 PM..
 
Old 05-07-2010, 05:31 PM
 
Location: Mastic Beach
752 posts, read 1,244,875 times
Reputation: 302
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
Why would a cop ask you for your I.D. if you are only asking for directions? The lawful contact would have to be on the part of the cop initiating the contact.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holdencaulfield View Post
Under this law the police have a right to ask you for your id as long as there is "lawful contact" doesn't state anything about arrest. You asking a police for directions is lawful contact, you serving as a witness to a crime is lawful contact, you calling to report a crime is lawful contact. In none of those instances have you commited a crime, yet they can ask you for proof of citizenship. How is that not a violation of the 4th amendment. All they have to do is change the law and to state that they will check for citizenship after they have been arrested and charged with a crime. I'll be fine with that.


that's what I thought but the other guy said that any contact with an officer is a lawful contact whether you talk to them or they talk to you. if this is true then he has a point.
if it isn't
then he doesn't.
now personally I know that when I have witnessed a crime I have been asked to fill out a police report, when I filled out that report I was asked for ID
my ID is proof of my citizenship
so in essence according to this dude
my rights have been violated already.
of course I didn't feel that way about it.
but if I asked a cop for directions and he asked if I was a citizen that would be messed up.
 
Old 05-07-2010, 05:40 PM
 
Location: Purgatory (A.K.A. Dallas, Texas)
5,010 posts, read 12,847,409 times
Reputation: 2414
Quote:
Originally Posted by minesbroken View Post
my ID is proof of my citizenship

No, it's not.
 
Old 05-07-2010, 05:46 PM
 
Location: Mastic Beach
752 posts, read 1,244,875 times
Reputation: 302
Quote:
Originally Posted by getmeoutofhere View Post
No, it's not.
uh..yes it is.
you cant get a nys drivers license without being a citizen of the united states and a resident of nys.
 
Old 05-07-2010, 05:51 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,180,215 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by minesbroken View Post
that's what I thought but the other guy said that any contact with an officer is a lawful contact whether you talk to them or they talk to you. if this is true then he has a point.
if it isn't
then he doesn't.
now personally I know that when I have witnessed a crime I have been asked to fill out a police report, when I filled out that report I was asked for ID
my ID is proof of my citizenship
so in essence according to this dude
my rights have been violated already.
of course I didn't feel that way about it.
but if I asked a cop for directions and he asked if I was a citizen that would be messed up.
I have asked a cop for directions and he never asked to see my I.D. for that. That will not change in Arizona. There are some in here that are just grasping at straws because they don't like the law for whatever agenda they are pushing. The arguments against it get more bizarre by the minute.
 
Old 05-07-2010, 05:51 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,696,242 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by minesbroken View Post
uh..yes it is.
you cant get a nys drivers license without being a citizen of the united states and a resident of nys.
Incorrect there: otherwise; how would a green card holder be able to get a DL?
 
Old 05-07-2010, 05:53 PM
 
Location: Purgatory (A.K.A. Dallas, Texas)
5,010 posts, read 12,847,409 times
Reputation: 2414
Quote:
Originally Posted by minesbroken View Post
uh..yes it is.
you cant get a nys drivers license without being a citizen of the united states and a resident of nys.

You can get a driver's license without being a citizen of the US. Same with a state-issued ID card.
 
Old 05-07-2010, 05:55 PM
 
Location: Mastic Beach
752 posts, read 1,244,875 times
Reputation: 302
Quote:
Originally Posted by getmeoutofhere View Post
You can get a driver's license without being a citizen of the US. Same with a state-issued ID card.
not in NY only in new mexico and washington.
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