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Old 05-10-2010, 11:12 AM
 
10,543 posts, read 11,682,359 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
Interesting that so many Mexicans have been brainwashed to think otherwise, isn't it?
The brainwashing made it over the border just like everything else.
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Old 05-10-2010, 11:20 AM
 
Location: Cali
3,885 posts, read 5,995,057 times
Reputation: 2200
The southwest is becoming the US version of the Sudetenland!:-(
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Old 05-10-2010, 11:46 AM
 
2,549 posts, read 2,329,749 times
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OK. So the USA "took" or "bought" this land in the mid 1,800's from the Mexican government. The Spaniards took this land (Mexico and the present day Southwest) from the Indian tribes inhabiting the area at that time. Mexicans posess both Indian and Spanish blood. The Indians likely took land from other tribes before them and ultimately from indigenous people who migrated there from somewhere else. Who really belongs there? Face it people. This is politics at it's best. And guess what? It's a dirty business. We the people, are all too often pawns in this game, shuffled and rearranged by those in power. However we try to justify occupation, the bottom line is that there is a history of ill-gotten land. We can claim it came legitimately through purchases but when that follows a war, that is questionable at best. Is this the same place we often say that God blessed? Really?

Lastly, there's a lot of complaining about the immigration issue but so much seems to come down to bigotry of the worst kind. Of seeing all Mexicans as illegal and corrupt and lazy and stupid and offering nothing but taking everything. I live in Los Angeles. The area has always had a Latino presence and yes today we see mostly Latino laborers / gardeners (used to be predominantly Japanese gardeners). We see joke Emails with several gardeners with blowers strapped to their backs titled Mexican Ghost Busters. Let's not forget a subtlety here. Many of those Latinos are not Mexican but are Central American. Is El Salvador planning a joint takeover? Are they insulted when thought of as Mexican? I know a few Dominicans who are.

What are we really afraid of? Of losing something that might not really belong to us to begin with?
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Old 05-10-2010, 12:06 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,149,569 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Floyd View Post
OK. So the USA "took" or "bought" this land in the mid 1,800's from the Mexican government. The Spaniards took this land (Mexico and the present day Southwest) from the Indian tribes inhabiting the area at that time. Mexicans posess both Indian and Spanish blood. The Indians likely took land from other tribes before them and ultimately from indigenous people who migrated there from somewhere else. Who really belongs there? Face it people. This is politics at it's best. And guess what? It's a dirty business. We the people, are all too often pawns in this game, shuffled and rearranged by those in power. However we try to justify occupation, the bottom line is that there is a history of ill-gotten land. We can claim it came legitimately through purchases but when that follows a war, that is questionable at best. Is this the same place we often say that God blessed? Really?

Lastly, there's a lot of complaining about the immigration issue but so much seems to come down to bigotry of the worst kind. Of seeing all Mexicans as illegal and corrupt and lazy and stupid and offering nothing but taking everything. I live in Los Angeles. The area has always had a Latino presence and yes today we see mostly Latino laborers / gardeners (used to be predominantly Japanese gardeners). We see joke Emails with several gardeners with blowers strapped to their backs titled Mexican Ghost Busters. Let's not forget a subtlety here. Many of those Latinos are not Mexican but are Central American. Is El Salvador planning a joint takeover? Are they insulted when thought of as Mexican? I know a few Dominicans who are.

What are we really afraid of? Of losing something that might not really belong to us to begin with?
You are spouting BS. No one that I know of thinks all Mexicans are here illegally.

There is no fear of losing something that doesn't belong to us because this country belongs to U.S. citizens.
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Old 05-10-2010, 12:09 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,149,569 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rggr View Post
The brainwashing made it over the border just like everything else.
Not sure what you mean but on this side of the border even Americans of Mexican ancestry are being brainwashed in those Chicano studies courses.
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Old 05-10-2010, 12:14 PM
 
10,543 posts, read 11,682,359 times
Reputation: 2797
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Floyd View Post
OK. So the USA "took" or "bought" this land in the mid 1,800's from the Mexican government. The Spaniards took this land (Mexico and the present day Southwest) from the Indian tribes inhabiting the area at that time. Mexicans posess both Indian and Spanish blood. The Indians likely took land from other tribes before them and ultimately from indigenous people who migrated there from somewhere else. Who really belongs there? Face it people. This is politics at it's best. And guess what? It's a dirty business. We the people, are all too often pawns in this game, shuffled and rearranged by those in power. However we try to justify occupation, the bottom line is that there is a history of ill-gotten land. We can claim it came legitimately through purchases but when that follows a war, that is questionable at best. Is this the same place we often say that God blessed? Really?

Lastly, there's a lot of complaining about the immigration issue but so much seems to come down to bigotry of the worst kind. Of seeing all Mexicans as illegal and corrupt and lazy and stupid and offering nothing but taking everything. I live in Los Angeles. The area has always had a Latino presence and yes today we see mostly Latino laborers / gardeners (used to be predominantly Japanese gardeners). We see joke Emails with several gardeners with blowers strapped to their backs titled Mexican Ghost Busters. Let's not forget a subtlety here. Many of those Latinos are not Mexican but are Central American. Is El Salvador planning a joint takeover? Are they insulted when thought of as Mexican? I know a few Dominicans who are.

What are we really afraid of? Of losing something that might not really belong to us to begin with?

There has to be some basis from which to work. We could challenge whether Mexico had a right to sell that land to us if we wanted to go back further. The fact is that through the events of history, the borders have come to be accepted as they are now, by Mexico, the US, Spain, the UN etc. The same type of challenges could be offered for the majority of national borders around the world. Land has been conquered, sold etc. across the globe throughout history. People deciding they don't want to honor the purchase and want to relabel it as stolen 150 years later is less than convincing and pretty directly puts you in the category of hostile.

Of course some bigotry exists, but your categorization of the complaints is not consistent with what I've seen. Most of the complaints I've seen have been about the subset of immigrants that have chosen to come illegally, while supporting those that come legally, whether Mexican, Dominican, Guatemalan etc.
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Old 05-10-2010, 12:15 PM
 
10,543 posts, read 11,682,359 times
Reputation: 2797
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
Not sure what you mean but on this side of the border even Americans of Mexican ancestry are being brainwashed in those Chicano studies courses.
That's what I was saying.
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Old 05-10-2010, 12:40 PM
 
2,549 posts, read 2,329,749 times
Reputation: 898
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
You are spouting BS. No one that I know of thinks all Mexicans are here illegally.

There is no fear of losing something that doesn't belong to us because this country belongs to U.S. citizens.
Regarding "all Mexicans"...Is this the BS part? Perhaps I should have said "many" instead of all. BTW, have you read these posts? Perhaps no one has directly said this but...

So you think my opinion is BS? That's your right. And BTW, it's what separates this place from so many others...that is the right to speak out without fear of reprisal. Do you completely buy into all the US doctrine? Do you think everything here is yours and mine? Do you think I don't love this place or am unpatriotic if I question these things? My questioning is what makes me American whether you agree with me or not. If you think the US has all this by completely legitimate means, you are the one who suffers from BS or delusion, to a degree.

Last edited by Mr Floyd; 05-10-2010 at 12:53 PM..
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Old 05-10-2010, 12:52 PM
 
2,549 posts, read 2,329,749 times
Reputation: 898
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rggr View Post
There has to be some basis from which to work. We could challenge whether Mexico had a right to sell that land to us if we wanted to go back further. The fact is that through the events of history, the borders have come to be accepted as they are now, by Mexico, the US, Spain, the UN etc. The same type of challenges could be offered for the majority of national borders around the world. Land has been conquered, sold etc. across the globe throughout history. People deciding they don't want to honor the purchase and want to relabel it as stolen 150 years later is less than convincing and pretty directly puts you in the category of hostile.

Of course some bigotry exists, but your categorization of the complaints is not consistent with what I've seen. Most of the complaints I've seen have been about the subset of immigrants that have chosen to come illegally, while supporting those that come legally, whether Mexican, Dominican, Guatemalan etc.
Your point is taken certainly much better than the poster who opens with "you are spouting BS." Talk about your conversation killers... The question of illegality is central to this all for the more informed and educated. For many others, there is over generalization including other Latinos have disdain for Mexicans because of that same stereotype. But perhaps I myself over generalized there.

Hostility certainly seems to be a large part of the equation especially when it comes to Immigration issues. BTW, how many unhostile takeovers have there really been...if you ask those being taken over? We have different rules of conduct for when we are at war than when we are not. Death is a by product of war when we are officially at war...but if not, it is more akin to terrorism. But whatever you call it and however it is justified, it is still the end for those who die.
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Old 05-10-2010, 01:01 PM
 
Location: CITY OF ANGELS AND CONSTANT DANGER
5,409 posts, read 11,070,242 times
Reputation: 2244
garbage ALARMISM!

no such "plans" exist.

mexico will never take over the southwest. wont happen.
i cant beleive you people buy into this garbage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Econolodge-911 View Post
"Mexicans Have Plans : They vow to take it over"

May 6, 2010



Mexicans Have Plans : They vow to take it over | Ron Paul 2012 | Campaign for Liberty at the Daily Paul (http://www.dailypaul.com/node/133735 - broken link)
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