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Old 05-10-2010, 01:12 PM
 
10,543 posts, read 11,680,657 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Floyd View Post
The question of illegality is central to this all for the more informed and educated. For many others, there is over generalization including other Latinos have disdain for Mexicans because of that same stereotype.
I'm sure that's true.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Floyd View Post
But perhaps I myself over generalized there.
Kudos.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Floyd View Post
Hostility certainly seems to be a large part of the equation especially when it comes to Immigration issues. BTW, how many unhostile takeovers have there really been...if you ask those being taken over?
Ha ha! Good point!

Those that have become hostile in their intent to take over should not be surprised when the target of the takeover doesn't like it and becomes hostile as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Floyd View Post
We have different rules of conduct for when we are at war than when we are not. Death is a by product of war when we are officially at war...but if not, it is more akin to terrorism. But whatever you call it and however it is justified, it is still the end for those who die.
No argument there.
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Old 05-10-2010, 01:17 PM
 
264 posts, read 390,173 times
Reputation: 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by the one View Post
garbage ALARMISM!

no such "plans" exist.

mexico will never take over the southwest. wont happen.
i cant beleive you people buy into this garbage.
These organzations beg to differ, to name a few:

Movimiento Estudiantil Chicano de Aztlán

National Brown Berets

La Voz de Aztlan


You will find a local chapter for most of these groups in just about any major U.S. university in the Southwest.
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Old 05-10-2010, 01:26 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,146,155 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Floyd View Post
Regarding "all Mexicans"...Is this the BS part? Perhaps I should have said "many" instead of all. BTW, have you read these posts? Perhaps no one has directly said this but...

So you think my opinion is BS? That's your right. And BTW, it's what separates this place from so many others...that is the right to speak out without fear of reprisal. Do you completely buy into all the US doctrine? Do you think everything here is yours and mine? Do you think I don't love this place or am unpatriotic if I question these things? My questioning is what makes me American whether you agree with me or not. If you think the US has all this by completely legitimate means, you are the one who suffers from BS or delusion, to a degree.
If you would just go back and read my post again you will see that stating that we think that all Mexicans are here illegally, is BS. I don't mind a difference of opinion but stating the above is not being honest. We don't even think that most of them are here illegally. There are supposedly 12 million illegals in this country and they aren't all from Mexico. There are at least 10 million citizen Hispanics in this country not counting their children because that is how many voted in the presidential election. That doesn't even count the Hispanic citizens that didn't vote. Do you not think that we aren't aware of this?

It doesn't matter what your opinion or mine is on how parts of the southwest were acquired. The only thing that matters is that the lands in question now belong to the U.S. and have for over 200 years now. Those people involved in those past events are all dead now and my advice would be to start living in the present.
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Old 05-10-2010, 01:36 PM
 
2,549 posts, read 2,329,385 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
If you would just go back and read my post again you will see that stating that we think that all Mexicans are here illegally, is BS. I don't mind a difference of opinion but stating the above is not being honest. We don't even think that most of them are here illegally. There are supposedly 12 million illegals in this country and they aren't all from Mexico. There are at least 10 million citizen Hispanics in this country not counting their children because that is how many voted in the presidential election. That doesn't even count the Hispanic citizens that didn't vote. Do you not think that we aren't aware of this?

It doesn't matter what your opinion or mine is on how parts of the southwest were acquired. The only thing that matters is that the lands in question now belong to the U.S. and have for over 200 years now. Those people involved in those past events are all dead now and my advice would be to start living in the present.
I shall be civil. I qualified my initial comment by changing "all" to "many" and I stand by that opinion...Mostly out of respect for everyone who is here legally, regardless of ethnicity.

I live in the present. The present world is the same as it ever was. Volatile. Hostile and anything but stable. An ally today is an enemy tomorrow. Yes. Dirty business. Just ask the CIA operatives who trained Osama Bin Laden. Anyway, if Mexico were to take over, it seems it would be through a war, though I don't see them with the capability to do it alone. That being said, were they to do so, what would we have to say about it? "All's fair in love and war"?

You have of course heard the saying, "Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it" haven't you? Remember...200 years is not all that long ago.
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Old 05-10-2010, 01:44 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,146,155 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by the one View Post
garbage ALARMISM!

no such "plans" exist.

mexico will never take over the southwest. wont happen.
i cant beleive you people buy into this garbage.
No one is saying that "Mexico" the country/government will take over the southwest. What we are saying is there is an attitude by a good majority of Mexicans (someone posted the poll taken of Mexicans) who think that the southwest was stolen from them and that they have every right to come here.
There are many Chicano radical groups whose purpose is to see that those territories be turned into their mythical land of Aztlan and ruling themselves. The illegal aliens from Mexico are their little foot soldiers to help them achieve their goal. There is power in numbers, politically, numerically and culturally and they know it.

Why do you think there are so many citizens of Mexican ancestry who want the illegals to be able to stay in this country and fight border security and internal enforcement tooth and nail? Why do you think it is mostly Latinos in this country that are objecting to SB1070? It is partly due to those same sentiments and because they want their ethnic group to become the majority in this country to gain power.

You really need a reality check.
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Old 05-10-2010, 01:48 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,146,155 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Floyd View Post
I shall be civil. I qualified my initial comment by changing "all" to "many" and I stand by that opinion...Mostly out of respect for everyone who is here legally, regardless of ethnicity.

I live in the present. The present world is the same as it ever was. Volatile. Hostile and anything but stable. An ally today is an enemy tomorrow. Yes. Dirty business. Just ask the CIA operatives who trained Osama Bin Laden. Anyway, if Mexico were to take over, it seems it would be through a war, though I don't see them with the capability to do it alone. That being said, were they to do so, what would we have to say about it? "All's fair in love and war"?

You have of course heard the saying, "Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it" haven't you? Remember...200 years is not all that long ago.
Read my post above. Any attempted hostile takeover by an ethnic group through an illegal invasion will be met with harsh opposition. Yes, we know all about history and we have no intentions of allowing it to be repeated.
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Old 05-10-2010, 02:10 PM
 
2,549 posts, read 2,329,385 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
Read my post above. Any attempted hostile takeover by an ethnic group through an illegal invasion will be met with harsh opposition. Yes, we know all about history and we have no intentions of allowing it to be repeated.
I'm curious. Have you ever been accused of being smug? In part by giving out seemingly simplistic advice and telling people to "live in the present"?

Who determines the legality / illegality? Besides the supposed takeover would not be through war. Not by Mexico anyway. It would most likely be through civil disobedience, political positioning and legal wrangling by ACLU, Amnesty International and other "civil right" groups. How do you think we intend to stop that or not "allow it to be repeated"? What makes you so sure of your opinions?
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Old 05-10-2010, 02:20 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,146,155 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Floyd View Post
I'm curious. Have you ever been accused of being smug? In part by giving out seemingly simplistic advice and telling people to "live in the present"?

Who determines the legality / illegality? Besides the supposed takeover would not be through war. Not by Mexico anyway. It would most likely be through civil disobedience, political positioning and legal wrangling by ACLU, Amnesty International and other "civil right" groups. How do you think we intend to stop that or not "allow it to be repeated"?
Gee, stating the truth is being smug now? As for your question as to who determines legality/illegality. How does Mexico determine who is in their country legally/illegally? I think most nations go by the same rules on that one. Do the words "citizen" or "legal resident" ring a bell?

Evidently you failed you read some of my posts. I said it isn't the Mexican government that is trying to take over this country but those individuals with a reconquista mindset.

As I said, any attempts by subversive groups in this country to take away our culture, identity and rights will be met with harsh opposition by the majority of Americans. You can just use your imagination on that one.
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Old 05-10-2010, 03:03 PM
 
2,549 posts, read 2,329,385 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
Gee, stating the truth is being smug now? As for your question as to who determines legality/illegality. How does Mexico determine who is in their country legally/illegally? I think most nations go by the same rules on that one. Do the words "citizen" or "legal resident" ring a bell?

Evidently you failed you read some of my posts. I said it isn't the Mexican government that is trying to take over this country but those individuals with a reconquista mindset.

As I said, any attempts by subversive groups in this country to take away our culture, identity and rights will be met with harsh opposition by the majority of Americans. You can just use your imagination on that one.
I am not at issue with your opinions and didn't use the word smug because of your supposed factual statements. I used it because of your tone and terse comments when concluding your posts. Even "Gee, stating the truth is being smug now?" and "Do the words "citizen" or "legal resident" ring a bell?" reek a bit in that sense. With all due respect, where does your "truth" come from? These days, most news that gets debated, is spun and spun to the point of being hard to recognize.

I referenced legal vs illegal in the last post not referring to citizenship but to invasion itself. Maybe justified vs. unjustified is a more apt description. Now I am not referring to these reconquistadors (good word BTW) specifically when I say this either. I am looking at the world picture historically. Lots of invasions are justified by one side and vilified by the other. A freedom fighter on one side is a sandinista on the other.

Now regarding this matter, regardless of the attitudes of these groups, it seems that truly taking over would only come with force. And I agree. I don't see the US letting that happen.
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Old 05-10-2010, 03:52 PM
 
Location: On a Long Island in NY
7,624 posts, read 8,115,516 times
Reputation: 6949
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Floyd View Post
I'm curious. Have you ever been accused of being smug? In part by giving out seemingly simplistic advice and telling people to "live in the present"?

Who determines the legality / illegality? Besides the supposed takeover would not be through war. Not by Mexico anyway. It would most likely be through civil disobedience, political positioning and legal wrangling by ACLU, Amnesty International and other "civil right" groups. How do you think we intend to stop that or not "allow it to be repeated"? What makes you so sure of your opinions?
It won't be an official war. This is an example of what is called 4th generation warfare.

Fourth generation warfare - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Quote:
Fourth Generation Warfare is defined as conflicts which involve the following elements:
  • Are complex and long term.
  • Terrorism. (tactic)
  • A non-national or transnational base, highly decentralized.
  • A direct attack on the enemy's culture.
  • Highly sophisticated psychological warfare, especially through media manipulation and lawfare.
  • All available pressures are used - political, economic, social and military.
  • Occurs in low intensity conflict, involving actors from all networks.
  • Non-combatants are tactical dilemmas.
  • Lack of hierarchy
  • Small in size, spread out network of communication and financial support
  • Use of Insurgency and Guerilla tactics
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