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Old 05-09-2010, 09:25 AM
 
Location: New London County, CT
8,950 posts, read 9,812,330 times
Reputation: 5101

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Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
What then do you propose be done about illegal immigration?
If we're serious about it, I'd start by going after those who employ illegal aliens in very serious ways. The reason they come over here is for work and to earn money. If that is made more difficult, their reason for coming will be limited. Furthermore, I'd suggest instituting a real guest worker or seasonal foreign agriculture worker program so that the US could still get the inexpensive labor it needs in the agriculture sector, while leaving the construction and other jobs for those who are citizens and here legally. (If you're against this, let me know when you'd like to go pick apples.) What's your plan, besides to stop brown people and ask them for their papers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
Do you demand the same right for Americans to never have to produce any kind of ID?
I didn't say that, my friend. I suggested that lowering the burden for police intervention from probable cause to suspicion gives the police to much power. Furthermore, doing it on only one group of people racially is legally and constitutionally perilous.
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Old 05-09-2010, 09:29 AM
 
Location: Arizona
5,396 posts, read 6,915,883 times
Reputation: 1197
Quote:
Originally Posted by dcsldcd View Post
LOL and they will save over $1 BILLION annually if they get rid of all the illegal immigrants. The schools will be better. The hospitals will be better and the crime will go way down. A win win for Arizona!
LOL. and the coyote will join hands with the roadrunner and bask in the warm Ariozona sun. Pass me whatever you are having, friend.
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Old 05-09-2010, 09:31 AM
 
Location: Neither here nor there
14,810 posts, read 13,560,227 times
Reputation: 32925
Yes. DC is not doing its job in securing our borders and our reps have ignored the issue for several decades for political reasons. It's about time states started doing what is necessary to address problems that DC lets slide.
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Old 05-09-2010, 09:34 AM
 
Location: Arizona
5,396 posts, read 6,915,883 times
Reputation: 1197
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
I sure don't see your type fighting for Americans' rights never to have to obtain or provide a drivers license, or produce proof of liability insurance when driving.

It seems "rights" are only an issue with it's about foreign citizens coming and living here illegally. Why should an American have to have a drivers license or any kind of ID if illegals can do whatever they like and never have to have any ID?

I'll believe your sincerity when I see you demand that no American ever be made to show proof of identity.
First of all I don't know what you are attempting to imply by "my type.

Second of all I could care a gnat's rear about your feelings concerning my sincerity. Sorry.

This is going to cost Arizona money we do not have, nobody has attempted to explain how this is going to be actually implemented. The police are already cutting budgets and staff all around Arizona as it is. We have no room in our jails. The federal government has not said how the Arizona local law enforcement is supposed to transfer suspected illegals over to them or if they will even engage in this.

Most major Arizona city councils, many law enforcement chiefs and associations, local businesses oppose this. They live in the "Real World", not in a a Wing Nut Politician's Wet Dream.
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Old 05-09-2010, 09:40 AM
 
8,640 posts, read 7,732,598 times
Reputation: 2854
Quote:
Originally Posted by bily4 View Post
LOL. and the coyote will join hands with the roadrunner and bask in the warm Ariozona sun. Pass me whatever you are having, friend.

How about I pass you some facts pal.

The Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR): The Costs of Illegal Immigration to Arizonans: Executive Summary


Illegal Immigration Costs Arizona Taxpayers $1.3 Billion Annually


Year after year money sucking illegal immigrant cost Arizona over a BILLION dollars so getting rid of them will be a boon for the state. The schools will be able to provide a better education and hospitals will not suffer from all the free health care to illegals. There is not one good thing anyone can say about illegal immigrants. Not one!
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Old 05-09-2010, 09:44 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,699,632 times
Reputation: 22158
Quote:
Originally Posted by bily4 View Post
First of all I don't know what you are attempting to imply by "my type.

Second of all I could care a gnat's rear about your feelings concerning my sincerity. Sorry.

This is going to cost Arizona money we do not have, nobody has attempted to explain how this is going to be actually implemented. The police are already cutting budgets and staff all around Arizona as it is. We have no room in our jails. The federal government has not said how the Arizona local law enforcement is supposed to transfer suspected illegals over to them or if they will even engage in this.

Most major Arizona city councils, many law enforcement chiefs and associations, local businesses oppose this. They live in the "Real World", not in a a Wing Nut Politician's Wet Dream.
Of course many businesses oppose this law. They very much benefit from ultra cheap labor. They don't want to hire Americans and follow wage and labor laws. So?? The slave masters didn't want to give up slavery either -- for the exact same reasons.
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Old 05-09-2010, 09:45 AM
 
8,640 posts, read 7,732,598 times
Reputation: 2854
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
Of course many businesses oppose this law. They very much benefit from ultra cheap labor. They don't want to hire Americans and follow wage and labor laws. So?? The slave masters didn't want to give up slavery either -- for the exact same reasons.

Many of thse businesses are either owned by illegal immigrants or employ them They should lose their business!
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Old 05-09-2010, 09:47 AM
 
3,141 posts, read 2,952,941 times
Reputation: 3647
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlassoff View Post
I don't support the law. (Please don't waste your time with some hyperbolic accusation of me being for illegal immigration). I think we all agree that something needs to be done regarding reform of illegal immigration.

My main problem with the law is the increase of police power. We have moved the standard from "probable cause" to suspicion. Suspicion seems much more highly subjective. The police are caught abusing their power (it seems) more and more frequently. Why give them more unchecked power?
Why have any police to begin with?
They might offend somebody.
When you are assaulted on the street?
Call somebody else.
At least you won't have to worry about their unchecked power.
I sure would hate to be a police officer these days, you would have to worry about everyone's feelings before you can protect the innocent.
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Old 05-09-2010, 09:49 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,699,632 times
Reputation: 22158
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlassoff View Post
If we're serious about it, I'd start by going after those who employ illegal aliens in very serious ways. The reason they come over here is for work and to earn money. If that is made more difficult, their reason for coming will be limited. Furthermore, I'd suggest instituting a real guest worker or seasonal foreign agriculture worker program so that the US could still get the inexpensive labor it needs in the agriculture sector, while leaving the construction and other jobs for those who are citizens and here legally. (If you're against this, let me know when you'd like to go pick apples.) What's your plan, besides to stop brown people and ask them for their papers?



I didn't say that, my friend. I suggested that lowering the burden for police intervention from probable cause to suspicion gives the police to much power. Furthermore, doing it on only one group of people racially is legally and constitutionally perilous.
Well how are you going to go after the employers if the illegals can't be expected to have any proof of ID? You would still have to verify legal residency of the employees if you're going to go after the employers -- which I think should be done and ANYONE employing illegals should spend some time in prison.

As far as the temporary guest workers -- there is already that in place:

Employment Law Guide - Temporary Agricultural Workers (H-2A Visas) (http://www.dol.gov/compliance/guide/taw.htm - broken link)

The H-2A temporary agricultural program establishes a means for agricultural employers who anticipate a shortage of domestic workers to bring nonimmigrant foreign workers to the U.S. to perform agricultural labor or services of a temporary or seasonal nature. Before the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS)(USCIS Home Page) can approve an employer's petition for such workers, the employer must file an application with the Department stating that there are not sufficient workers who are able, willing, qualified, and available, and that the employment of aliens will not adversely affect the wages and working conditions of similarly employed U.S. workers.

There are no limits on the number of H2A visas that can be handed out -- NO LIMITS.
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Old 05-09-2010, 09:51 AM
 
Location: Arizona
5,396 posts, read 6,915,883 times
Reputation: 1197
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
Of course many businesses oppose this law. They very much benefit from ultra cheap labor. They don't want to hire Americans and follow wage and labor laws. So?? The slave masters didn't want to give up slavery either -- for the exact same reasons.
Sorry, I said "businesses, city councils and law enforcement agencies."

Because they understand that the impracticality and expense of actually trying to implement this, the revenue they will lose from business and tourism boycotts, the lost revenue from Mexican citizens coming north to shop which is a huge part of Arizona's economy, will crush our state which is already near the bottom in terms of fiscal health nationally.

Again, "Real World".

( I am not going to respond to the other guy with his wingnut articles that do not cite sources. That just gets old after awhile.)
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