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Old 03-21-2011, 12:41 PM
 
Location: Wherabouts Unknown!
7,754 posts, read 16,450,212 times
Reputation: 9287

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elanora1 wrote:
All that self congratulation has literally nothing to do with the topic at hand.
Actually, it was intended as a statement of my torment. If you want to categorize it as self congratulations, than so be it.

Every single country has borders. Why are we surrender ours because a group of foreigners say so?
In my mind it is not a matter of surrendering our borders, but rather a growth in consciousness to the point where we actually to walk the talk in our constitution where is says that ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL.

My "privileged lifestyle" is hardly as a result of birth. I was born in a housing project to a high school dropout and a GED holder. I owe my current economic status because I stayed in school, earned an education and then voluntarily chose to have children once I could afford them.
You've done well and I offer you my sincere congratulations.

Most of the illegal immigrants have done nothing of the kind. Why are they exempt from the laws that govern the rest of us?
To my knowledge, they are not exempt. They have to deal with the same adversities that you had to overcome...and then some.

You seem to believe that Americans are some sort of enormously privileged people
Relative to most of the worlds population...I agree with your assessment.

and illegal immgrants are saints who are disadvantaged solely because they weren't born here. Nothing could be further from the truth.
Mother Teresa is the ONLY individual that I have even heard about in my lifetime who I would consider a saint.

You might want to stop patting yourself on the back for that belief.
In actuality, I am struggling with all of this as much as the next person. Just about everything I've written is pure idealism that I am nowhere close to following thru with. If you want to call it back patting, then so be it.
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Old 03-21-2011, 12:46 PM
 
Location: Wherabouts Unknown!
7,754 posts, read 16,450,212 times
Reputation: 9287
Elanora1 wrote:
A bad one. A silly, santimonious, self congratulatory comparison that holds people to no standards at all.
You are most welcome to give it any label that you choose to give it. Sticks and stones......
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Old 03-21-2011, 12:56 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,809,199 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmicWizard View Post
Benicar wrote:
When birds and animals start committing ID theft and fraud, displacing workers and depressing wages, committing violent criminal acts against our citizens, and bankrupting states, then you can compare them to illegal aliens. Until then, there is no comparison.
That's is NOT true. I already made the comparison!
True, albeit a nonsensical comparison.
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Old 03-21-2011, 01:01 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,809,199 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmicWizard View Post
[/indent]In my mind it is not a matter of surrendering our borders, but rather a growth in consciousness to the point where we actually to walk the talk in our constitution where is says that ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL.
Yes, all men ARE created equal. However, that does not afford ALL men the “right” to live in the United States of America. It certainly does not entitle ALL men to be supported by U.S. taxpayers.
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Old 03-21-2011, 05:11 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,146,155 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmicWizard View Post
elanora1 wrote:
All that self congratulation has literally nothing to do with the topic at hand.
Actually, it was intended as a statement of my torment. If you want to categorize it as self congratulations, than so be it.
Every single country has borders. Why are we surrender ours because a group of foreigners say so?
In my mind it is not a matter of surrendering our borders, but rather a growth in consciousness to the point where we actually to walk the talk in our constitution where is says that ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL.
My "privileged lifestyle" is hardly as a result of birth. I was born in a housing project to a high school dropout and a GED holder. I owe my current economic status because I stayed in school, earned an education and then voluntarily chose to have children once I could afford them.
You've done well and I offer you my sincere congratulations.
Most of the illegal immigrants have done nothing of the kind. Why are they exempt from the laws that govern the rest of us?
To my knowledge, they are not exempt. They have to deal with the same adversities that you had to overcome...and then some.
You seem to believe that Americans are some sort of enormously privileged people
Relative to most of the worlds population...I agree with your assessment.
and illegal immgrants are saints who are disadvantaged solely because they weren't born here. Nothing could be further from the truth.
Mother Teresa is the ONLY individual that I have even heard about in my lifetime who I would consider a saint.
You might want to stop patting yourself on the back for that belief.
In actuality, I am struggling with all of this as much as the next person. Just about everything I've written is pure idealism that I am nowhere close to following thru with. If you want to call it back patting, then so be it.
So are you saying that because the Constitution says that "all men are created equal" that meant open borders for anyone who wants to take up residence in our country? Yet our government implemented immigration laws long ago. Are you saying that our government is in violation of the Constitution by having immigration laws?
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Old 03-21-2011, 05:18 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,146,155 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmicWizard View Post
Elanora wrote:
What BOTH sides are you writing about?


One side: it is just human nature to have a strong desire to hold on to those advantages and use legality rather than morality to justify our position on the issue of illegal immigration.


The other side: most of us have the advantages we have, simply becasue we were born in the USA. Our advantaged lifestyle is simply due to an accident of birth.


You're clearly coming down not only in favor of illegal immigration but SUBSIDIZED illegal immigration. That's insane.
My side: We ( myself included ) choose to hide behind the skirts of legality, as a means of not having to face our unwillingness to exercise unconditional compassion to our fellow human beings.

I'm truly tormented about this. The selfish part of me wants to keep out the illegals, while the more compassionate part of me says, knock down all of the man made lines in the sand, and allow people to choose where they want to live without all the man made legal hassles. Give human beings a status that is at least equal to the status of the birds and animals who are not subject to those lines in the sand.

How is it insane to have a desire to improve the rights of human beings to at least match the rights of birds and animals?
Birds and animals are spread out throughout our planet. What you are suggesting is that we import the whole world's poor into one country (the U.S.). You can't be serious.
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Old 03-21-2011, 06:55 PM
 
Location: Chicago
3 posts, read 2,450 times
Reputation: 12
Default too many humans

Believe it or not, I have compassion.
The incredible numbers of illegals in Chicago is just too much.
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Old 03-22-2011, 12:57 PM
 
Location: Wherabouts Unknown!
7,754 posts, read 16,450,212 times
Reputation: 9287
chicagonut wrote:
So are you saying that because the Constitution says that "all men are created equal" that meant open borders for anyone who wants to take up residence in our country? Yet our government implemented immigration laws long ago. Are you saying that our government is in violation of the Constitution by having immigration laws?
I am saying that 'all man are created equal ' could mean that we learn to treat each other in a manner that shows that we really believe that those words. The implementation of immigration laws by our governemnt indicates to me anyway, that our governement does not truly believe in those words.



chicagonut wrote:
Birds and animals are spread out throughout our planet. What you are suggesting is that we import the whole world's poor into one country (the U.S.). You can't be serious.
I always have a good chuckle when sometime tells me that I cannot do, be, or say something after I have already done so. What others say you cannot do, you try and find that you can...Henry David Thoreau

I was indeed serious when I wrote about improving the rights of human beings to at least match the rights of birds and animals.

Your interpretation that I might be suggesting that we import the whole world's poor into one country (the U.S.), is just that....your interpretation!



harleyauthor wrote:
Believe it or not, I have compassion.
The incredible numbers of illegals in Chicago is just too much.
Good for you. I am hoping that you won't stop there, that you are aspiring to the level of unconditional compassion that I wrote about. From that lofty place of being, The incredible numbers of illegals in Chicago is not likely to bother you anymore.

For the sake of clarity, let it be known that I am speaking of an IDEAL when I mention unconditional compassion. I am nowhere close to having mastered it myself. At my current state of growth, it is merely an aspiration.
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Old 03-22-2011, 02:11 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma(formerly SoCalif) Originally Mich,
13,387 posts, read 16,200,288 times
Reputation: 4611
Quote:
CosmicWizard wrote:
I am saying that 'all man are created equal ' could mean that we learn to treat each other in a manner that shows that we really believe that those words. The implementation of immigration laws by our governemnt indicates to me anyway, that our governement does not truly believe in those words.
The door swings both ways. People can't expect to be treated with respect by the one's they "diliberately and openly" treat with disrespect and hate.

Whether they think it can be done or not................it will never happen.
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Old 03-22-2011, 02:25 PM
 
Location: Wherabouts Unknown!
7,754 posts, read 16,450,212 times
Reputation: 9287
mkfarnam wrote:
People can't expect to be treated with respect by the one's they "diliberately and openly" treat with disrespect and hate.
Obviously, some people can and do expect to be treated with respect by the one's they "diliberately and openly" treat with disrespect and hate. BUT....unrealistic expectations like that are usually met with disappointment.
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