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Old 06-16-2007, 09:53 AM
 
Location: San Diego North County
4,800 posts, read 7,689,216 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilypad View Post
I really like the thought of taking to the streets with Uzis in hand myself...
When violence is promoted as a solution to illegal immigration, we become that which we claim to abhor.

Our strength is in our vote and our ability to pitch the turncoats into the streets. If the Senate passes the shamnesty bill, America cannot allow herself to suffer short term memory loss. The traitors have to go.
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Old 06-16-2007, 10:15 AM
 
7,139 posts, read 12,894,180 times
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Ahhhhh, with that "thinking", we would still be having tea with the British....
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Old 06-16-2007, 11:03 AM
 
Location: San Diego North County
4,800 posts, read 7,689,216 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilypad View Post
Ahhhhh, with that "thinking", we would still be having tea with the British....
So then you advocate the violent overthrow of the government of the United States of America?

In the 1700's before America became an independent country and violence was used by the British in order to keep her citizens in line, physical rebellion was the only avenue left open to the patriots. However, we are no longer a territory with no voice in our government. We still have options and at this point, violence against our government is not one of them.
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Old 06-16-2007, 11:21 AM
 
Location: California
11,425 posts, read 16,662,632 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by faith10 View Post
I pray that soon that Americans will take to the streets by tens of millions in every big city!
I'm ready, one day full of large protests of Americans will shake things up, we need to re-teach the government that they work for us and better start listening.
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Old 06-16-2007, 11:41 AM
 
7,139 posts, read 12,894,180 times
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It appears this sick government is taking an active role to DESTROY our country. And if that is the case, yes, I advocate overthrow! Will see just how the "options" play out. Can we re-teach a corrupt government?
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Old 06-16-2007, 11:56 AM
 
Location: Northeast
1,298 posts, read 2,365,987 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilypad View Post
It appears this sick government is taking an active role to DESTROY our country. And if that is the case, yes, I advocate overthrow! Will see just how the "options" play out. Can we re-teach a corrupt government?
It's not the government so much as it is the folks voting them into power. The only long term solution to this problem is to divide into two countries. It's getting to that point anyway, and we may as well start working toward it before we end up in a cultural civil war. Oh wait, we already are.

Seriously, I'd rather not share the same country as those who voted for Bush in 2004. Their decisions in the voting booth have been plaguing this country for a decade straight now, and they still fail to see what they're doing wrong.

I'm so tired of it. Why do you think I don't even come to CD that much anymore? I'm just disgusted.

~T
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Old 06-16-2007, 12:15 PM
 
Location: San Diego North County
4,800 posts, read 7,689,216 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilypad View Post
It appears this sick government is taking an active role to DESTROY our country. And if that is the case, yes, I advocate overthrow! Will see just how the "options" play out. Can we re-teach a corrupt government?
If the entirety of the government were corrupt, we would already be living in the North American Union and amnesty would be moot.

There are still patriots in our government fightning for the rights of their constituency. Since they are our best chance right now, I prefer to support them rather than advocate violence as the only solution.
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Old 06-16-2007, 08:32 PM
 
646 posts, read 1,636,394 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kele View Post
WRONG, WRONG, WRONG!!!!!

The majority of polls not conducted by the NY Times or LA Times show beyond a shadow of a doubt that more than 2/3 of voters in this country are adamantly opposed to the current immigration bill.

You sound like the MSM. Even CBS conducted a poll and reluctantly reported their results, i.e.; Americans on the whole are overwhelmingly opposed to this bill.

Americans who know what this bill is proposing, know the following:

28 Reasons To Kill The Bill Now!!!!!!!!!


1. Security doesn’t come first in this bill. This bill would immediately legalize illegal aliens that are currently in the country. The only way Congress will actually see to it that the border security and enforcement provisions in the bill will be implemented is if they have to do them before they even consider an amnesty for the people who are here.

2. Illegal aliens won’t have to pay back taxes — where do we get the same deal? The whole idea that illegal aliens shouldn’t have to pay the taxes they already owe for working in the United States is utterly and completely offensive because it actually gives them a privilege that American citizens aren’t getting: forgiveness for taxes owed to the IRS.

3. If passed, this bill will make taxpayers pay the legal bills for illegal aliens seeking amnesty. Tucked away is a provision that would allow lawyers in the federally-funded legal services program to represent illegal aliens, which they are presently barred from doing.

4. This bill rewards illegal aliens for breaking our laws. There are tens of millions of people who respect our laws and our country, waiting patiently, in line, often in their home countries, to get a chance to come here. Under this bill, illegal aliens will immediately be eligible for a “Z Visa” which allows them to work, go to school, and — this is important — stay here for the rest of their lives if they so choose because there is no limit on the number of times it can be renewed.

5. The bill gives the government only one business day to conduct a background check to determine whether an applicant is a criminal or a terrorist. It is impossible, of course, to determine in a single day whether someone is a terrorist or a criminal.

6. In the bill Section 601(g)(2), illegal-alien gang members would be eligible for amnesty merely by signing a “renunciation of gang affiliation.”

7. Gang-bangers and other criminals, who have been ordered to leave the United States by an immigration judge but defy the ruling, are called absconders. Section 601(d)(1)(I) permits U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services to grant an absconder a Z visa anyway if he can show that being forced to leave the United States “would result in extreme hardship” to the alien, his spouse, parent or child.

8. The bill effectively shuts down our immigration-court system. If an alien in the removal process is eligible for the Z visa, the immigration judge must close the proceedings and offer the alien the chance to apply for the amnesty.

9. If ICE officials apprehend an alien who appears eligible for the Z visa (in other words, just about any illegal alien), they can’t detain him. Instead, ICE must help him apply for the Z visa.

Rather than initiating removal proceedings, ICE will be initiating amnesty applications. It’s like turning the Drug Enforcement Agency into a needle-distribution network.

10. To qualify for the Z-visa amnesty, an illegal alien need only have a job (or be the parent, spouse, or child of someone with a job) and come up with a scrap of paper suggesting he was in the country before Jan. 1 of this year. Any bank statement, pay stub, or similarly forgeable record will do.

Expect a mass influx unlike anything this country has seen before, once the 12-month period for accepting Z visa applications begins. These rules are an open invitation to sneak in and present a fraudulent piece of paper indicating that you were already here.

11. As promised, the bill will legalize most of the 12 million to 20 million illegal aliens now in the country via a new “Z visa.” Each would pay $5,000 - only slightly more than the going rate to be smuggled into America. This is not up front. They will have eight years to pay it back.

12. Supporters of the bill call the Z visa “temporary” - neglecting to mention that it can be renewed indefinitely until the visa holder dies. Thus, we have the country’s first permanent temporary visa. On top of that, it’s a super-visa - allowing the holder to work, attend college or do just about anything else.

Are you a law-abiding alien who’s interested in switching to this privileged status? Sorry. Only illegal aliens can qualify.

13. The bill increases legal migration by at least 50 percent over the next decade by granting green cards to all the remote relatives who are in the chain migration categories, a number estimated at 750,000 to 900,000 a year. That is triple the current number of 250,000. Giving green cards to millions of additional relatives ensures that legal immigration will continue to grow as this larger pool of permanent residents brings in spouses.

14. The bill claims that bench marks must be met before amnesty/guest-worker provisions go into effect. But the bench marks fail to require that the U.S.-Mexico border be closed, fail to require that the border fence be completed as mandated by Congress in October and fail to require that the Department of Homeland Security implement the entry-exit visa system so Americans can know if visitors and guest workers actually leave.

The border security part of the bill calls for a 370-mile-long fence on the U.S./Mexico border. That is only half as long as the 700-mile-long fence ordered by the Secure Fence Act passed overwhelmingly by Congress and ostentatiously signed by the president in front of TV cameras just before the November 2006 election.

15. Another bench mark is that “tools” will be provided to prevent illegal immigrants from getting jobs, including requirements for identification standards and an employee verification system. But the bill lacks a requirement that anybody actually use the tools.

16. The costs of the Senate immigration bill are mind-boggling. Unbelievably, the Senate has made no attempt to estimate this costs or how to how to pay them. The Heritage Foundation’s Robert Rector puts a potential price tag on this bill of $2.5 trillion, which is five times the cost of the Iraq war.

17. At least 60 percent of illegal immigrants lack a high school diploma, which means they will work low-wage jobs, pay little or no income tax, and be heavy users of our schools and means-tested social benefits such as Medicaid, school lunches, Women, Infants and Children Program, subsidized housing, the Earned Income Tax Credit, and free legal counsel.

18. Fiscal costs would go up dramatically after amnesty recipients reach retirement. Each elderly low-skill immigrant imposes a net cost - that is benefits minus taxes - on U.S. taxpayers of about $17,000 per year, according to the Heritage Foundation. These costs would hit Social Security and Medicare at the very time Social Security is expected to go into crisis.

19. Section 413 calls on Congress to “accelerate the implementation” of the Security and Prosperity Partnership - announced by Bush in Waco, Texas, in 2005 - so that the United States can “improve the standard of living in Mexico.” Do U.S. taxpayers want to take on the awesome economic burden of solving poverty problems in Mexico?

20. The Senate immigration bill states that the United States want to increase access to credit for “poor and under-served populations in Mexico,” and expand efforts “to reduce the transaction costs of remittance flows” from the U.S. to Mexico now running at $23 billion a year. That is money made in the US but transferred out of our economy.

21. The Senate bill also puts the United States into a “partnership” with Mexico for “increasing health care access for poor and under-served populations in Mexico,” for “assisting Mexico in increasing its emergency and trauma health care facilities,” and for “expanding prenatal care” in the border region. Do U.S. taxpayers want to take on the awesome economic burden of solving problems in Mexico?

22. The Senate bill authorizes 4,000 new Border Patrol agents, but doesn’t require that they be trained or deployed.

23. Illegal Aliens will receive instate tuition. Illegal aliens would receive a taxpayer subsidy worth tens of thousands of dollars and would be treated better than U.S. citizens from out of state, who must pay three to four times as much to attend college. In an era of limited educational resources and rising tuitions, U.S. citizens, not aliens openly violating federal law, should be first in line to receive education subsidies.

24.Health standards ignored – Z-Visa holders are not required to be given medical examinations and immunizations. Z-Visa applicants and permenant residents are two peas off the same pod. Both can live in the USA as long as they want. Permenant residents are required to be given a medical examination and immunized but Z-Visa holders are not. All aliens, including Z-Visa holders should be required to be given medical examinations and immunized. They are living and breathing in our country just as permanent residents. The health and safety issues are one and the same. TB or Leprosy anyone?

25.“There are no serious assimilation components to the legislation.” Dual citizenship, naturalized Americans voting here and overseas, non-English classrooms and multilingual ballots all thrive, despite the bill’s “comprehensive” scope. “Assimilation” appears only once in this legislation.

26. The amnestee doesn’t have to know squat in English to get probationary status or a Z visa. After four years when seeking to renew the Z visa the first time, he only has to take — not pass, just take — the naturalization language test or be on a waiting list for English classes. “Learn English” only happens after eight years, and then it’s not actual mastery of the language.

27. As stated above in #13 “The bill increases legal migration by at least 50 percent over the next decade….” Yet, when asked in a Gallup poll what level of immigration do Americans want, overwhelmingly they say less (46%) or same (34%). While only 16% want more. The US Census Bureau in 1999 projected The USA’s population will double in less then 100 years from 300 million to 600 million. The majority of that increase will be from legal immigration, illegal immigration, plus both their descendants. This is completely against what the American people want. When do we start double decking our freeways Mr. President?

28. If Amnesty passes, 12-20 million illegal aliens would be immediately granted probationary legal status. Processing these individuals would be the responsibility of the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS). Estimates are, if amnesty is given to just 12 million illegal aliens within the year allowed for applications, that would mean an average of 48,000 amnesty applications each day for USCIS’s 3,000 adjudicators. Add an additional 200,000 guest workers applications to the mix. That would be in addition to the 6.3 million (2005) legal applications and the backlog of several million unresolved applications the USCIS has responsibility over. The Senate’s proposal would vastly expand USCIS’s workload but do little to ensure that the agency is capable of handling the task.
Can you post the links to those polls please? I've posted many others, not from the NY or LA Times, but from the "fair and balanced" Fox News that show similar results. This particular bill may not be the greatest solution, but I do believe we need to find a middle ground. I'll read the rest of your bullet points later
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Old 06-16-2007, 08:34 PM
 
Location: San Diego North County
4,800 posts, read 7,689,216 times
Reputation: 3010
Sorry, Fox kisses Bush's butt...they are not fair and balanced.

This one is a study and poll:

Immigration Poll Results

The results of the Zogby poll (Zogby is completely non-partisan and has no stake in the outcome of the poll, thus more trustworthy than polls by the mainstream media)

Stop Illegal Immigration at the California Border! California Border Police (http://www.calborderpolice.com/news/read/?id=14529 - broken link)

ALIPAC dissects pubic opinion poll of registered voters likely to vote regarding this issue.

Illegal Immigration VS Americans for Legal Immigration PAC - New Poll Shows Illegal Immigration High Among US Voter Concerns

Funny thing about the CBS poll. Although they reported the results on television, I can't find the poll results online.

Last edited by Kele; 06-16-2007 at 08:56 PM..
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Old 06-16-2007, 08:53 PM
 
1,393 posts, read 2,490,525 times
Reputation: 413
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stockholmaren View Post
Can you post the links to those polls please? I've posted many others, not from the NY or LA Times, but from the "fair and balanced" Fox News that show similar results. This particular bill may not be the greatest solution, but I do believe we need to find a middle ground. I'll read the rest of your bullet points later
The CBS poll she is talking about I heard them give it out last Sunday (I think) and I was shocked that the liberal CBS for once was telling the truth.
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