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Old 05-21-2010, 11:44 PM
 
358 posts, read 332,712 times
Reputation: 107

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Quote:
Originally Posted by californio sur View Post
Essentially you are correct based on what I have read. But you seem to be underplaying the consequences of Prop 187 to the Republican party. Governor Wilson was warned by prominent Republicans not to use the issue in order to win re-election. Just like governor Brewer was warned not to sign the Arizona law. Too bad that they didn't listen. Wilson has been blamed for the fall out & the GOP has lost its once prominence in California. There was a time when most governors were Republicans in California but no more and the primary reason was the alienation of Latinos. That's why Arizona will go the way of California. All Arizona need do is look north to Nevada, west to California and east to New Mexico to see the writing on the wall.

What are you talking about? since 1967 California has had Republican governors, with the exception of Jerry Brown 1975-83, and that recalled failure Grey Davis 2000-2003. Wlison did win the election, after him was Grey Davis (who was removed mid-term) replaced by another Republican. Last time I checked we have a (center?) Republican governor. Oh, and California was turning into a blue stronghold Before the 187 issue, in 1992 California voted in a Democrat president by the name of Bill Clinton, and the GOP was smashed 0-3 that same year. Too bad prop 187 was not in 1992.. then it would REALLY look like it was caused by Latino backlash against 187.
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Old 05-22-2010, 12:52 AM
 
Location: Pasadena
7,413 posts, read 7,828,956 times
Reputation: 1802
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceman82 View Post
What are you talking about? since 1967 California has had Republican governors, with the exception of Jerry Brown 1975-83, and that recalled failure Grey Davis 2000-2003. Wlison did win the election, after him was Grey Davis (who was removed mid-term) replaced by another Republican. Last time I checked we have a (center?) Republican governor. Oh, and California was turning into a blue stronghold Before the 187 issue, in 1992 California voted in a Democrat president by the name of Bill Clinton, and the GOP was smashed 0-3 that same year. Too bad prop 187 was not in 1992.. then it would REALLY look like it was caused by Latino backlash against 187.
I suggest you do some reading on the topic. Prop 187 left the GOP shattered:

"The Political Price
The hard political fact is that after 1994, California Democrats won every presidential, U.S. Senate, and gubernatorial election until 2003,
when a state electricity crisis led to a recall election that ousted Democratic Gov. Gray Davis and brought in Schwarzenegger. This string of victories for the last 16 years (Schwarzenegger excepted) was no doubt due to Wilson’s backing of Proposition 187 and the long-lasting backlash it created against Republicans in the state".Learning from Proposition 187


"Prominent Republicans scrapped over immigration. Former cabinet secretaries Bill Bennett and Jack Kemp attacked California Governor Wilson for supporting Prop. 187. They argued that immigrants are "natural Republicans" who support low taxes and family values, and that Wilson risks turning the Republican party into a party of protectionism and xenophobia. According to Bennett, "its assimilation, stupid"--meaning that the major problem is not the number or type of immigrant entering the US."
http://migration.ucdavis.edu/mn/more.php?id=492_0_2_0

"California had a powerful, even dominant Republican Party just twenty years ago. What happened?
The watershed year that ended GOP fortunes was 1994, but the stage was actually set four years earlier, in 1990. That was the year a Republican, Pete Wilson, handily defeated Dianne Feinstein for the governorship. A so-called “moderate” Republican, Wilson took a page from a predecessor, Ronald Reagan, to sign on to what was then the biggest tax increase in California history to balance a budget reeling from the decline of defense spending at the end of the Cold War.

So, if the immediate result of Wilson’s immigrant bashing might have been to inflict grievous losses on Democrats, soon it became apparent that it had also sacrificed Republican prospects among the Latino population, which was (and is) California’s fastest growing demographic sector. Historically, Mexican immigrants were often wary of becoming U.S. citizens, and when they did they were only slightly more likely to vote Democrat than Republican. Many harbored dreams of returning to Mexico to retire.
But 1994 changed all that. By tarring Latinos as “illegals,” Republicans drove far more legal Mexican immigrants to become not only citizens and voters, but Democrats".
California’s crisis and the collapse of the Republican Party. « The Edge of the American West
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Old 05-22-2010, 05:30 AM
 
4,271 posts, read 7,887,141 times
Reputation: 1552
CALGUY, the people can't "make sure the courts can not intervene" - The whole principle behind the US legal system is that the U.S. Constitution is the ultimate law of the land. The US Supreme Court judges are deliberately not elected so that they are not subject to the whims of the people.

Anyhow, let's read a story about what it was like when Prop 187 was proposed, courtesy of a former LA inner city schoolteacher:
Propositions 209 and 187 and a Public School Teacher

Quote:
Originally Posted by CALGUY View Post
After the voters spoke and passed prop #187, the courts esentially ruled against it.
The final death blow came from former governor Gray Davis.
The bill had been dead since, and now, more than ever it is time to once again put it too the people with the stipulation it can not be adjucated in the courts.
The people spoke loud and clear on the bill by voting for it.
The people now MUST speak again on this issue and make sure the courts can not intervene with the majority's decree.
Bob.
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Old 05-22-2010, 07:38 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,149,569 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by californio sur View Post
I suggest you do some reading on the topic. Prop 187 left the GOP shattered:

"The Political Price
The hard political fact is that after 1994, California Democrats won every presidential, U.S. Senate, and gubernatorial election until 2003, when a state electricity crisis led to a recall election that ousted Democratic Gov. Gray Davis and brought in Schwarzenegger. This string of victories for the last 16 years (Schwarzenegger excepted) was no doubt due to Wilson’s backing of Proposition 187 and the long-lasting backlash it created against Republicans in the state".Learning from Proposition 187


"Prominent Republicans scrapped over immigration. Former cabinet secretaries Bill Bennett and Jack Kemp attacked California Governor Wilson for supporting Prop. 187. They argued that immigrants are "natural Republicans" who support low taxes and family values, and that Wilson risks turning the Republican party into a party of protectionism and xenophobia. According to Bennett, "its assimilation, stupid"--meaning that the major problem is not the number or type of immigrant entering the US."
Prop. 187 Approved in California - Migration News | Migration Dialogue

"California had a powerful, even dominant Republican Party just twenty years ago. What happened?
The watershed year that ended GOP fortunes was 1994, but the stage was actually set four years earlier, in 1990. That was the year a Republican, Pete Wilson, handily defeated Dianne Feinstein for the governorship. A so-called “moderate” Republican, Wilson took a page from a predecessor, Ronald Reagan, to sign on to what was then the biggest tax increase in California history to balance a budget reeling from the decline of defense spending at the end of the Cold War.

So, if the immediate result of Wilson’s immigrant bashing might have been to inflict grievous losses on Democrats, soon it became apparent that it had also sacrificed Republican prospects among the Latino population, which was (and is) California’s fastest growing demographic sector. Historically, Mexican immigrants were often wary of becoming U.S. citizens, and when they did they were only slightly more likely to vote Democrat than Republican. Many harbored dreams of returning to Mexico to retire.
But 1994 changed all that. By tarring Latinos as “illegals,” Republicans drove far more legal Mexican immigrants to become not only citizens and voters, but Democrats".
California’s crisis and the collapse of the Republican Party. « The Edge of the American West
What utter nonsense. The Republicans have not tarred ALL Latinos as illegals. No, the reason Latinos vote Democrat is because they are the party of social programs and because they lack the balls to stand up for the rule of law in regards to illegal immigration. Far too many Latinos are illegal alien sympthizers.
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Old 05-22-2010, 08:16 AM
 
358 posts, read 332,712 times
Reputation: 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by californio sur View Post
I suggest you do some reading on the topic. Prop 187 left the GOP shattered:

"The Political Price
The hard political fact is that after 1994, California Democrats won every presidential, U.S. Senate, and gubernatorial election until 2003,
when a state electricity crisis led to a recall election that ousted Democratic Gov. Gray Davis and brought in Schwarzenegger. This string of victories for the last 16 years (Schwarzenegger excepted) was no doubt due to Wilson’s backing of Proposition 187 and the long-lasting backlash it created against Republicans in the state".Learning from Proposition 187


"Prominent Republicans scrapped over immigration. Former cabinet secretaries Bill Bennett and Jack Kemp attacked California Governor Wilson for supporting Prop. 187. They argued that immigrants are "natural Republicans" who support low taxes and family values, and that Wilson risks turning the Republican party into a party of protectionism and xenophobia. According to Bennett, "its assimilation, stupid"--meaning that the major problem is not the number or type of immigrant entering the US."
Prop. 187 Approved in California - Migration News | Migration Dialogue

"California had a powerful, even dominant Republican Party just twenty years ago. What happened?
The watershed year that ended GOP fortunes was 1994, but the stage was actually set four years earlier, in 1990. That was the year a Republican, Pete Wilson, handily defeated Dianne Feinstein for the governorship. A so-called “moderate” Republican, Wilson took a page from a predecessor, Ronald Reagan, to sign on to what was then the biggest tax increase in California history to balance a budget reeling from the decline of defense spending at the end of the Cold War.

So, if the immediate result of Wilson’s immigrant bashing might have been to inflict grievous losses on Democrats, soon it became apparent that it had also sacrificed Republican prospects among the Latino population, which was (and is) California’s fastest growing demographic sector. Historically, Mexican immigrants were often wary of becoming U.S. citizens, and when they did they were only slightly more likely to vote Democrat than Republican. Many harbored dreams of returning to Mexico to retire.
But 1994 changed all that. By tarring Latinos as “illegals,” Republicans drove far more legal Mexican immigrants to become not only citizens and voters, but Democrats".
California’s crisis and the collapse of the Republican Party. « The Edge of the American West
Did you read NOTHING I wrote ? I just gave you facts, just facts. what did you give me here? Opinion pieces. First Article is by Gebe Martinez. THINK PROGRESSIVE? you have any idea how far Left that site is? Like I said in my last post Sur, Explain the 1992 defeat in California. GOP lost 0-3, we voted for a Blue President. The SECOND ONE is the opinions of two men that founded Freedom works, they are both nut jobs! once again you are giving me the Opinion of someone.The Third article.. some fact but everything you posted from it is opinion, "But 1994 changed all that. By tarring Latinos as “illegals,” Republicans drove far more legal Mexican immigrants to become not only citizens and voters, but Democrats". "Arnold Schwarzenegger (an immigrant who broke with his party on immigration and so drew immigrant votes)" REALLY? it was the immigrant vote that got him in? VDARE.com: 10/19/03 - The Sailer Strategy: Graphic Evidence From California it was the White vote that did it buddy, no "sleeping giant" there. Sur you gave me nothing but garbage, all opinion pieces from radicals (first two articles at least) with no facts or basis. Opinions are like ***** holes, everyone has em. Please don't waste my time reading crap articles- I want numbers and stats- Just like the ones I gave you that Prove you are still wrong in this last post (all my evidence was posted in my last post, not going to do it for a third time)

Last edited by Iceman82; 05-22-2010 at 08:28 AM..
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Old 05-22-2010, 09:58 AM
 
Location: Oxygen Ln. AZ
9,321 posts, read 16,136,339 times
Reputation: 5685
Quote:
Originally Posted by CALGUY View Post
After the voters spoke and passed prop #187, the courts esentially ruled against it.
The final death blow came from former governor Gray Davis.
The bill had been dead since, and now, more than ever it is time to once again put it too the people with the stipulation it can not be adjucated in the courts.
The people spoke loud and clear on the bill by voting for it.
The people now MUST speak again on this issue and make sure the courts can not intervene with the majority's decree.
Bob.
Best of luck with that one. I lived in CA during the Prop 187 mess. What a shame that the people have found that their voice or vote does not count and only the activist judges will decide what is good for the state or the country. Be careful what you vote for, you may get the rewards you do not deserve. The idiot Jerry Brown is a Davis clone and they worked together very well.
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Old 05-22-2010, 10:01 AM
 
Location: Oxygen Ln. AZ
9,321 posts, read 16,136,339 times
Reputation: 5685
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
Have you noticed that the majority of Americans favor the law? Have you noticed that the majority of Americans feel that Illegals need to be held accountable?
Have you noticed that its the minority of Americans who feel illegals are anything but a burden?
They only notice what the want to notice. Over 70% and last night on the news it was up to 85% were in favor of this. That would have to include many, many hispanics who I believe want to keep America the way it is for their children. This is about illegal immigration and not just Mexicans the way the radical left and our own President is trying to spin it. We have a seven year old in the White House and that should scare everyone of us.
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Old 05-22-2010, 12:09 PM
 
841 posts, read 790,007 times
Reputation: 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
You vote the incumbant out of office and keep voting them out until they get a clue.
Right, and I hope no one is fooled by Meg Whitman who keeps adding on promises to match Poizner's position he ran on from the start. Can you change the heart? No. She is McCain's buddy. They want legal status for all illegal aliens. I'd vote for a democrat if I was sure he intended to send illegals back.
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Old 05-22-2010, 12:17 PM
 
841 posts, read 790,007 times
Reputation: 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by californio sur View Post
I don't know if you have access to the political ads by Whitman & Poizner but they are hilarious. Both attack each other by listing all the liberal politicians or causes they have supported or gave money to. Republicans should be vomiting since both Whitman & Poizner are essentially liberals willing to lie and pretend they are conservatives. Both have contributed money to either Barbara Boxer or Al Gore. Both have advocated for more taxes. Both are essentially liberal on social issues. Of-course this is campaign time but whoever wins the primary will immediately downplay their so-called "conservative" credentials in order to appeal to Democrats. They are both phony & willing to do anything to become governor [which btw is a thankless job].
Poizner very conservative on what counts to me, that is illegal immigration, he has ALways been very against illegal immigration and wants to send them back. Whitman's website repeats several times that she will support fed. government.
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Old 05-22-2010, 12:24 PM
 
841 posts, read 790,007 times
Reputation: 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckyGem View Post
Yeah I remember I VOTED for 187 and the court overturned it.

Amazing that was in the 1990's and look at what we've become.

I'm thoroughly disgusted.
Courts and all of law enforcement need money from illegal drugs brought in by illegals to stay in business.
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