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Old 06-15-2007, 05:00 PM
 
Location: San Diego North County
4,800 posts, read 7,689,216 times
Reputation: 3010

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dingler View Post
The Governor is wrong. With the new immigration bill (that has been given new life today and will pass, California will get another 10 Million Spanish Speaking IMMIGRANTS within 20 years. Most of the State will be more like Miami where English is rarely spoken. The Spanish speaking people in CA should work on improving their SPANISH skills, not English.

Spanish will be the defacto offical language of CA soon and many recent immigrants do not even know that language very well.
Boy, you just like to spread your sunshine and flowers all over the board don't you?

It ain't over until the House sings, and judging from what went on there today, it won't be singing the Senate's tune.
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Old 06-16-2007, 07:16 AM
 
44,587 posts, read 43,115,486 times
Reputation: 14385
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dingler View Post
The Governor of CA is in trouble with Hispanic Groups because he advised Hispanics in CA to stay away from Spanish Speaking media. He says that it slows down their ability to learn English.

Many Democrats and other liberals say the comments were racist and silly. Your opinion?
I don't see the governor of CA telling Neo-Nazis and KKK characters to stop reading the Turner Diaries, or anything else that is racist. I do not believe that English is the issue. You can learn English by taking English courses.
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Old 06-16-2007, 07:19 AM
 
44,587 posts, read 43,115,486 times
Reputation: 14385
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowCaver View Post
And he is wrong how?

Last I checked, English [or rather the Americanized version thereof] is the language of our society. Not Spanish. Not German. Not Russian. Not Portuguese. Not Mandarin. But, English. I do love other languages - they are rich and wonderful, and I've studied some. However, 'when in Rome, do as the Romans do'. When in Mexico, do I expect them to speak English to me? No, but yea sure its nice, but heck, its their country. So, yes, I do agree with him. If a person from another country is going to be a vibrant, contributing member of our society, in our country, why should they not learn our language, English? Yes, they can get their news and such from their native language sources, but,,, are they then really truly part of our society? In any case, when at all possible, yes, I agree with his statements regarding this matter.

BTW, not all Hispanics agree w/ the BS surrounding this flak the Governator is getting:

LA Daily News - Governor stuns Hispanic journalists

I agree that these immigrants should learn English because it will help them in the USA. At the same time, what they watch on TV is their business.
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Old 06-16-2007, 12:49 PM
 
Location: Bay Area, CA
28,185 posts, read 43,461,725 times
Reputation: 18579
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dingler View Post
The Governor of CA is in trouble with Hispanic Groups because he advised Hispanics in CA to stay away from Spanish Speaking media. He says that it slows down their ability to learn English.

Many Democrats and other liberals say the comments were racist and silly. Your opinion?
Yes, it was a silly comment... if you moved to Germany, would you NEVER watch any English/American television or movies? And would you switch 100% to speaking German, even around your English-speaking friends & family?? Doubtful. Oh, and I've traveled all over the world, and every country - even Turkey, for goodness sakes - had television programs in a variety of languages. Why are Americans so egotistical about our language, when it doesn't seem to be a problem in other diverse countries?? Seriously, I don't see what the big deal is. My Peruvian co-worker is listening to Spanish radio as I'm typing this, and she speaks PERFECT English... big whoop.
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Old 06-16-2007, 03:59 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
738 posts, read 606,356 times
Reputation: 279
I agree. They should be watching English-speaking television so they can learn the language of our country!
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Old 06-16-2007, 05:50 PM
 
Location: California
11,425 posts, read 16,662,632 times
Reputation: 12447
I think it was just an answer to a question he was asked about hispanic children learning english, hispanics blame the school system for their kids not learning english but at home many watch hispanic TV and the children are not getting exposure to the english language. It was just a simple comment that rings true. Telemundo is filing a law suit as we speek
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Old 06-16-2007, 07:39 PM
 
Location: Midwest
6,739 posts, read 8,541,977 times
Reputation: 16512
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkeye48 View Post
It wouldn't surprise me if in the future most California public schools will be teaching in Spanish.
The town I just moved out of makes you learn spanish in kindergarten. It's forced on you, not an option....
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Old 06-17-2007, 12:32 AM
 
Location: Bay Area, CA
28,185 posts, read 43,461,725 times
Reputation: 18579
Quote:
Originally Posted by Torn2pieces View Post
The town I just moved out of makes you learn spanish in kindergarten. It's forced on you, not an option....
English is "forced" on every kid in most other countries... what's the harm in raising children as bi/multi-lingual, as they do everywhere else in the world?? I've spoken Spanish since childhood, and it's benefited me in a number of ways.
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Old 06-17-2007, 09:41 AM
 
Location: San Diego North County
4,800 posts, read 7,689,216 times
Reputation: 3010
Quote:
Originally Posted by gizmo980 View Post
English is "forced" on every kid in most other countries... what's the harm in raising children as bi/multi-lingual, as they do everywhere else in the world?? I've spoken Spanish since childhood, and it's benefited me in a number of ways.
Forced being the operative word here.

Last time I checked, the U.S. was still a democracy despite GWB's obvious attempts to make it otherwise.

If a person wants to learn a second language--terrific! I'm all for it. I'm learning Italian and Spanish right now. But second languages shouldn't be forced on someone. Many people do not have the wherewithal to learn a second language (just as some of us are Algebra illiterate despite our numerous attempts to learn it! ).

The reason that English is required in so many countries is because it is the language of commerce. In order for airplanes to fly (air traffic controllers) and various areas of business to function, a common language was needed. English is the language that was chosen. Therefore, in order to go into any field which requires international interaction, English must be learned. And just so you know, this was an international community decision, not something "forced" on poor unsuspecting countries by the United States. We aren't the only English speaking country in the world, people.
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Old 06-17-2007, 09:50 AM
 
1,738 posts, read 3,883,570 times
Reputation: 4566
This is one of the fundamental issues that goes to the heart of the illegal immigration problem: assimilation. As a non-Mexican Hispanic I have the benefit of watching the mexican community from the bleachers of a common language and I have to tell you, Telemundo and Univision are to our immigration problem what Al-Jazeera is to Arab perception of America in the Middle East. It is a nail in the coffin.

You have to understand that the Hispanic community has a very similar socio-economic struggle as mainstream America does, in terms of race. Illegal mexican immigrants are usually poor inhabitants of rural Mexican states, racially heavy on the Native indian people of their region, as opposed to more blended with african and/or spanish like the rest of Latin America, and between the corruption, overpopulation and general disregard for these people by Mexico City, they don't have many options. The problem is that when they come here they are "welcomed" by a machine that works towards keeping them clustered in one herd, this machine is Telemundo and Univision. Have you ever sat down and watched the racial composition of the people who work, anchor the news, and generally represent the face of these networks? They don't look much like our illegal immigrant compadre from rural Méjico. Nope. They are white Hispanics, mostly Cuban American, Puerto Rican, Venezuelan, Argentinian; they are perfectly bilingual (they fail terribly at hiding this fact while on the air), college educated in the States, and better off socially than the majority of whites in this country. You know why that is? Because it takes droves of poor mexican illegals to keep these "españolitos" at the top tier of the Miami/New York/Chicago/L.A. social structure.

These networks constanly bombard the immigrant with an "alternative" to English television, offering a piece of "back home". The illegal should know better but doesn't, and Telemundo keeps him unassimilated. The pro-illegal immigration agenda on the part of Univision is haneous; if you don't understand Spanish put your TV set on SAP english and read what they constantly offer on their 5 o clock news, you'd think they are directly lobbying for the Mexican Government, and watch how critical they are of the country that hosts them, simply ridiculous. Of course they go home to their mansions in Miami and go mingle (in English mind you) with their caucasian network exec friends that pad them in the back for a job well done and look our stock is up. Ugh.

I strongly believe language proficiency is the first critical step towards assimilation and Telemundo and Univision are very smart in steering the newly arrived Hispanic population from taking such a critical step towards becoming relevant members of this society, and therefore avoiding jeopardizing the "token" status these white Hispanics enjoy (for full disclosure I am a white Hispanic, so it's not an us vs them thing with me, I hate their elitism as much as the one coming from the top tier of white corporate America).

Same thing goes for the Catholic Church. As a rain or shine Roman Catholic, it boils me that the West Coast Archdioceses are taking such a political stance, just so that they can pad their enrollment. How narrow-sighted.

Being from Puerto Rico, the cultural argument is similar, and yet so freggin' weak. We are talking natural-born citizens here, and they still spout the "cultural suicide" argument ad nauseaum. So imagine a poor mexican who didn't even grow up in an americanized hispanic society. He has no other reference point than to take Univision's "offering" at face value.

In a perfect world I would like to see the influx of illegal immigrants controlled, until the population here was securely assimilated over two generations, so that when subsequent droves of mexicans come through they are greeted by assimilated members of society to guide them into citizenship, not these elitist weak D$cks in Miami with their pro-illegal agenda and "assimilation is bad for you but I'm assimilated and love it" hidden mantra.
But that's in a perfect world.
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