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Old 05-23-2010, 12:49 PM
 
4,543 posts, read 8,261,032 times
Reputation: 1681

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I imagine that many anti-illegal immigration posters here like the Arizona law because they want a bold gambit, something major that would cause people to more strongly enforce immigration laws.

But there is a lesson in making a bold gambit that could backfire.

Adolf Eichmann, a notorious Nazi, fled to Argentina to start a new life. Years later, Eichmann did not come home from work, and his family feared that he had been kidnapped. Eichmann's sons were friends with members of a right wing political group, and the group started a search across Buenos Aires for Eichmann.

Some members suspected that Israel had kidnapped Eichmann, and they wanted to do a bold measure to get Israel to return Eichmann. They wanted to kidnap the Israeli ambassador and use him as a hostage to try to get Eichmann back, and they wanted to torture the ambassador if the Israelis hesitated giving up Eichmann. But a former SS officer said to them: "Don't do anything stupid. Stay reasonable. Or you will lose everything, absolutely everything." (From the book "Hunting Eichmann, Page 266) And so the members instead simply searched the city alone. Eichmann was kidnapped by the Israelis, and he was put on trial in Israel.

Yes, a bunch of Neo-Nazis are not sympathetic figures. But I think the maxim "Don't do anything stupid. Stay reasonable. Or you will lose everything, absolutely everything." can apply to a lot of scenarios. I suspect that in regards to the Arizona law the political and legal fallout might seriously hurt the state of Arizona. Yes, I understand that Arizonans want something to happen, but the last-minute amendment to the Arizona law told me that the legislature of Arizona was not staying reasonable, and that it was betting the finances and welfare of the state on a law that could be ruled unconstitutional.
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Old 05-23-2010, 12:57 PM
 
364 posts, read 194,382 times
Reputation: 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicman View Post
I imagine that many anti-illegal immigration posters here like the Arizona law because they want a bold gambit, something major that would cause people to more strongly enforce immigration laws.

But there is a lesson in making a bold gambit that could backfire.

Adolf Eichmann, a notorious Nazi, fled to Argentina to start a new life. Years later, Eichmann did not come home from work, and his family feared that he had been kidnapped. Eichmann's sons were friends with members of a right wing political group, and the group started a search across Buenos Aires for Eichmann.

Some members suspected that Israel had kidnapped Eichmann, and they wanted to do a bold measure to get Israel to return Eichmann. They wanted to kidnap the Israeli ambassador and use him as a hostage to try to get Eichmann back, and they wanted to torture the ambassador if the Israelis hesitated giving up Eichmann. But a former SS officer said to them: "Don't do anything stupid. Stay reasonable. Or you will lose everything, absolutely everything." (From the book "Hunting Eichmann, Page 266) And so the members instead simply searched the city alone. Eichmann was kidnapped by the Israelis, and he was put on trial in Israel.

Yes, a bunch of Neo-Nazis are not sympathetic figures. But I think the maxim "Don't do anything stupid. Stay reasonable. Or you will lose everything, absolutely everything." can apply to a lot of scenarios. I suspect that in regards to the Arizona law the political and legal fallout might seriously hurt the state of Arizona. Yes, I understand that Arizonans want something to happen, but the last-minute amendment to the Arizona law told me that the legislature of Arizona was not staying reasonable, and that it was betting the finances and welfare of the state on a law that could be ruled unconstitutional.
time will tell
tha feds need to do sumthin or there will be dancin in tha streets aganst ilegal aliens
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Old 05-23-2010, 02:16 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,520,146 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicman View Post
I imagine that many anti-illegal immigration posters here like the Arizona law because they want a bold gambit, something major that would cause people to more strongly enforce immigration laws.

But there is a lesson in making a bold gambit that could backfire.

Adolf Eichmann, a notorious Nazi, fled to Argentina to start a new life. Years later, Eichmann did not come home from work, and his family feared that he had been kidnapped. Eichmann's sons were friends with members of a right wing political group, and the group started a search across Buenos Aires for Eichmann.

Some members suspected that Israel had kidnapped Eichmann, and they wanted to do a bold measure to get Israel to return Eichmann. They wanted to kidnap the Israeli ambassador and use him as a hostage to try to get Eichmann back, and they wanted to torture the ambassador if the Israelis hesitated giving up Eichmann. But a former SS officer said to them: "Don't do anything stupid. Stay reasonable. Or you will lose everything, absolutely everything." (From the book "Hunting Eichmann, Page 266) And so the members instead simply searched the city alone. Eichmann was kidnapped by the Israelis, and he was put on trial in Israel.

Yes, a bunch of Neo-Nazis are not sympathetic figures. But I think the maxim "Don't do anything stupid. Stay reasonable. Or you will lose everything, absolutely everything." can apply to a lot of scenarios. I suspect that in regards to the Arizona law the political and legal fallout might seriously hurt the state of Arizona. Yes, I understand that Arizonans want something to happen, but the last-minute amendment to the Arizona law told me that the legislature of Arizona was not staying reasonable, and that it was betting the finances and welfare of the state on a law that could be ruled unconstitutional.
The law never was unconstitutional with the orginal language. The wording was slightly changed for clarification knowing how the pro-illegals would want to nit-pic.
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Old 05-23-2010, 05:23 PM
 
Location: San Diego
35,136 posts, read 32,128,390 times
Reputation: 19673
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicman View Post
I imagine that many anti-illegal immigration posters here like the Arizona law because they want a bold gambit, something major that would cause people to more strongly enforce immigration laws.

But there is a lesson in making a bold gambit that could backfire.

Adolf Eichmann, a notorious Nazi, fled to Argentina to start a new life. Years later, Eichmann did not come home from work, and his family feared that he had been kidnapped. Eichmann's sons were friends with members of a right wing political group, and the group started a search across Buenos Aires for Eichmann.

Some members suspected that Israel had kidnapped Eichmann, and they wanted to do a bold measure to get Israel to return Eichmann. They wanted to kidnap the Israeli ambassador and use him as a hostage to try to get Eichmann back, and they wanted to torture the ambassador if the Israelis hesitated giving up Eichmann. But a former SS officer said to them: "Don't do anything stupid. Stay reasonable. Or you will lose everything, absolutely everything." (From the book "Hunting Eichmann, Page 266) And so the members instead simply searched the city alone. Eichmann was kidnapped by the Israelis, and he was put on trial in Israel.

Yes, a bunch of Neo-Nazis are not sympathetic figures. But I think the maxim "Don't do anything stupid. Stay reasonable. Or you will lose everything, absolutely everything." can apply to a lot of scenarios. I suspect that in regards to the Arizona law the political and legal fallout might seriously hurt the state of Arizona. Yes, I understand that Arizonans want something to happen, but the last-minute amendment to the Arizona law told me that the legislature of Arizona was not staying reasonable, and that it was betting the finances and welfare of the state on a law that could be ruled unconstitutional.
Doing nothing, which so many advocate, has got us to where we are today. AZ has two choices, slow death by 1000 Illegal Alien paper cuts or an aggressive approach to a festering problem in the hope that it works.
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Old 05-23-2010, 05:26 PM
 
768 posts, read 965,900 times
Reputation: 337
Has anyone ever asked a native American who the illegal immigrants are? Just a thought.
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Old 05-23-2010, 05:51 PM
 
6,286 posts, read 6,670,710 times
Reputation: 5869
Quote:
Originally Posted by Consent Withdrawn View Post
Has anyone ever asked a native American who the illegal immigrants are? Just a thought.
No need to, unless the Native Americans can show us which laws the first settlers broke.
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Old 05-23-2010, 05:59 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 19,455,636 times
Reputation: 6523
I wondered how long it would take to compare immigration law enforcement to Nazi germany. Not that it can be compared, but still I knew someone would just have to.
So enforcing and writing laws that would result in illegals being caught held accountable and deported is somehow Nazi like. Well there must be a lot of nazi countries in the world.
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Old 05-23-2010, 07:02 PM
 
4,543 posts, read 8,261,032 times
Reputation: 1681
Actually I was comparing it to a bunch of neo-Nazis in Argentina who wanted Eichmann back, not actually Nazi Germany.

And creating a measure to get the federal government to more strongly enforce immigration laws in a manner that makes some observers believe usurps the power/role/authority/place of the federal government could be akin to holding the Israeli ambassador hostage and threatening to torture him - Both are tactics that could end disastrously for parties involved.

In the case of the Argentine Neo-Nazis, they could have been killed or arrested.

In Arizona's case, lawsuits, bad press, etc. could erode the state's coffers and could lead to drastic cutbacks in service. Politicians may lose careers. Businesses may move elsewhere.

Ultimately the Neo-Nazis didn't take the "bold" step and instead did regular searches. They lost Eichmann, but they didn't lose everything.

Please fully read posts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
I wondered how long it would take to compare immigration law enforcement to Nazi germany. Not that it can be compared, but still I knew someone would just have to.
So enforcing and writing laws that would result in illegals being caught held accountable and deported is somehow Nazi like. Well there must be a lot of nazi countries in the world.
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Old 05-23-2010, 07:43 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,520,146 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Consent Withdrawn View Post
Has anyone ever asked a native American who the illegal immigrants are? Just a thought.
It is only those from tribes south of our border who think that anyone from European stock is here illegally otherwise how can those Mexicans defend their stolen land argument? We have treaties with the descendants of those tribes who were truly indigenous to the USA. Doesn't matter what they think anyway. We have been a soveirgn nation with borders for over 200 years now. The past is the past.
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Old 05-24-2010, 05:47 AM
 
Location: San Diego
35,136 posts, read 32,128,390 times
Reputation: 19673
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicman View Post
Actually I was comparing it to a bunch of neo-Nazis in Argentina who wanted Eichmann back, not actually Nazi Germany.

And creating a measure to get the federal government to more strongly enforce immigration laws in a manner that makes some observers believe usurps the power/role/authority/place of the federal government could be akin to holding the Israeli ambassador hostage and threatening to torture him - Both are tactics that could end disastrously for parties involved.

In the case of the Argentine Neo-Nazis, they could have been killed or arrested.

In Arizona's case, lawsuits, bad press, etc. could erode the state's coffers and could lead to drastic cutbacks in service. Politicians may lose careers. Businesses may move elsewhere.

Ultimately the Neo-Nazis didn't take the "bold" step and instead did regular searches. They lost Eichmann, but they didn't lose everything.

Please fully read posts.

Doing nothing is not an option anymore. Once everyone understands that there will be a lot more cooperation.
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