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Old 05-25-2010, 10:57 AM
 
1,038 posts, read 1,033,242 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rggr View Post
Again, you either didn't read it or chose to misrepresent what it says.
From the link

FOR ANY LAWFUL STOP, DETENTION OR ARREST MADE BY A LAW ENFORCEMENT
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Old 05-25-2010, 11:25 AM
 
10,543 posts, read 11,703,102 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holdencaulfield View Post
From the link

FOR ANY LAWFUL STOP, DETENTION OR ARREST MADE BY A LAW ENFORCEMENT
Yes those words do appear, but they are not followed by "has to prove their legal residency" as you posted previously. That part simply lays out the fact that they must have been stopped for something else first. It goes on to say that if they are stopped and there is probable cause, they may be asked to prove citizenship. You already knew that but chose to copy less than a complete sentence to misrepresent the law.
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Old 05-25-2010, 11:59 AM
 
Location: Arkansas
125 posts, read 181,147 times
Reputation: 92
I do not understand the reluctance of the LEGAL immigrants to carry and show their papers,
1.Are ashambed to be US citizens?? If so go back to where you came from.
2.I have to carry a driver's license with me at all times and I have no problem showing it to law enforcement if needed.
3.If you have nothing to hide, why are you so nervous about proveing your citizenship?

Last edited by ymmud123; 05-25-2010 at 12:00 PM.. Reason: Misspelling
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Old 05-25-2010, 01:11 PM
 
1,038 posts, read 1,033,242 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ymmud123 View Post
I do not understand the reluctance of the LEGAL immigrants to carry and show their papers,
What about American citizens who were born and raised in the US
Quote:
1.Are ashambed to be US citizens?? If so go back to where you came from.
I was born here.
Quote:
2.I have to carry a driver's license with me at all times and I have no problem showing it to law enforcement if needed.
No you don't, you only have to carry it when you are operating a motor vehicle.
Quote:
3.If you have nothing to hide, why are you so nervous about proveing your citizenship?
Who is nervous? I'm not, I feel if I am American citizen and I am not arrested I should not have to prove my citizenship. Only when I enter the country should I have to prove my citizenship. I consider it offensive for anyone to question my citizenship.
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Old 05-25-2010, 01:21 PM
 
10,543 posts, read 11,703,102 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holdencaulfield View Post
Who is nervous? I'm not, I feel if I am American citizen and I am not arrested I should not have to prove my citizenship. Only when I enter the country should I have to prove my citizenship. I consider it offensive for anyone to question my citizenship.
Unless you're stopped for something else first and provide probable cause, you don't need to worry about it. The law says that a state issued driver's license, ID etc. is enough to not be questioned further. That's a pretty low standard. If you were stopped for something and didn't have any such ID, they would question you further anyway, unless you're 12.

Personal offense at being questioned has never, nor should it ever, be a standard. When investigating all types of crime, police question people that are not guilty. Sometimes it's because they may have information, other times it's to rule them out. I'm sure some of them are offended; so should we not enforce criminal laws because someone might be offended?
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Old 05-25-2010, 01:39 PM
 
Location: South Portland, Maine
2,356 posts, read 4,946,331 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holdencaulfield View Post
What about American citizens who were born and raised in the US

I was born here.

No you don't, you only have to carry it when you are operating a motor vehicle.

Who is nervous? I'm not, I feel if I am American citizen and I am not arrested I should not have to prove my citizenship. Only when I enter the country should I have to prove my citizenship. I consider it offensive for anyone to question my citizenship.
1st of all your trying to make a connection by comparing yourself "an innocent subject" to someone who is IN the process of committing a crime by being here illegaly! there is a difference!

Anybody who is suspected of commiting a crime would be detained and identified by the police including US BORN CITIZENS!

Any officer can stop someone based on reasonable suspecion... that is for shop lifting, J walking, speeding, or even city ordinances! And at that point IF the officer realizes probable cause to beleive you committed a crime they have everyright to identify you! So this BS about not having to carry an ID is Moot. They will identify you before they let you go!

With this law and respect to just Illegal Immigrant status Officers need to meet the higher standard of probable cause and that is only AFTER they have met the previous standard of reasonable suspecion for something else... EX. traffic stop ect. to have even made the contact.. You cant just look at someone and devise reasonable suspecion that they "might" be illegal... like you can with every other crime!

So the bottom line is that right now Illegal Immigration is less enforcable then spitting on the sidewalk!

you fear mongerers should get your facts straight.. I can understand that there is a lot of money, votes, and power tied up in all this for the greedy politicians, goverment of mexico, and the illeegal immigrant's themselves.. they all have a vested interest in this and that it continues..

I can even understand the distorted view of all the bleedingharts that feel America's rich can feed and house the world..

But It is really irritating that average american refuses to educate themselves on what the real issues are and whats really taking place or who are afraid to stand up.. Apathy has been the demise of this nation!
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Old 05-25-2010, 01:40 PM
 
1,038 posts, read 1,033,242 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rggr View Post
Unless you're stopped for something else first and provide probable cause, you don't need to worry about it. The law says that a state issued driver's license, ID etc. is enough to not be questioned further. That's a pretty low standard. If you were stopped for something and didn't have any such ID, they would question you further anyway, unless you're 12.
What is probable cause for being an illegal immigrant? Do tell. The probable cause for being an illegal immigrant, barring racial profiling, is so small, that if implemented correctly, this law would be ineffective.
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Old 05-25-2010, 01:45 PM
 
Location: Wichita,Kansas
2,731 posts, read 5,947,486 times
Reputation: 1333
How many Illegals get a drivers license?I dont think this Law is going to do much..
To be honest.We need to make it impossible for Illegals to get a job or social programs.
Then they will self-deport.
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Old 05-25-2010, 01:49 PM
 
4,803 posts, read 3,145,095 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mauiwowie View Post
This actually isn't the text of the bill that was passed.

This is the link to the bill that will be enacted should it be allowed. It includes the original language and the amendments.

http://www.azleg.gov/alispdfs/council/SB1070-HB2162.PDF
Thanks!!
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Old 05-25-2010, 01:52 PM
 
Location: South Portland, Maine
2,356 posts, read 4,946,331 times
Reputation: 1511
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holdencaulfield View Post
What is probable cause for being an illegal immigrant? Do tell. The probable cause for being an illegal immigrant, barring racial profiling, is so small, that if implemented correctly, this law would be ineffective.
Like I said In my previous post.. probable cause is the standard that is met when an officer makes an arrest for a crime.. reasonable suspecion is the standard met for an officer to stop and investigate a crime..

At this point officer's can stop and investigate the suspecion of j-walking but not illegal immigrant status..

But this law has teeth because previously many cities and states have been restricting law enforcement from taking any kind of action.. this says that in AZ law enforcement has to take action but it still restricts the standards that need to be met when compared to other laws.
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