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Old 05-26-2010, 07:24 AM
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
4,927 posts, read 8,136,416 times
Reputation: 1606
Quote:
Originally Posted by mauiwowie View Post
Maybe things like this: Suits for wrongful deportation by ICE rise - SFGate





These are examples of US CITIZENS deported or detained. It can and does happen. With increased enforcement it seems to be happening more. Slig has stated is wife is an immigrant and doesn't want to rake a risk.
Correct, and just because I have concerns about the well-being of my wife doesn't give you (ChicagoNut) the right to accuse or label me of being this or that...I certainly don't appreciate it.
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Old 05-26-2010, 08:38 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 5,662,156 times
Reputation: 2115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slig View Post
Correct, and just because I have concerns about the well-being of my wife doesn't give you (ChicagoNut) the right to accuse or label me of being this or that...I certainly don't appreciate it.
Then answer the question why are you concerned for you and your wife? If she is a legal immigrant then she should have a green card. It is just smoke and mirrors when Hispanic citizens scream racial profiling when the truth is that their real concern is for the illegals themselves.

Sure mistakes are made sometimes but they are rare and not enough concern to warrant fear if you have valid I.D. and or a green card with you.
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Old 05-26-2010, 09:36 AM
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
4,927 posts, read 8,136,416 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
Then answer the question why are you concerned for you and your wife? If she is a legal immigrant then she should have a green card. It is just smoke and mirrors when Hispanic citizens scream racial profiling when the truth is that their real concern is for the illegals themselves.

Sure mistakes are made sometimes but they are rare and not enough concern to warrant fear if you have valid I.D. and or a green card with you.
Go through and read the entire thread, I don't feel like repeating myself.
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Old 05-26-2010, 09:53 AM
 
Location: ...at a 3AM epiphany
2,207 posts, read 1,234,311 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
Then answer the question why are you concerned for you and your wife? If she is a legal immigrant then she should have a green card. It is just smoke and mirrors when Hispanic citizens scream racial profiling when the truth is that their real concern is for the illegals themselves.

Sure mistakes are made sometimes but they are rare and not enough concern to warrant fear if you have valid I.D. and or a green card with you.
Absolutely correct!
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Old 05-26-2010, 12:08 PM
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
4,927 posts, read 8,136,416 times
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The concern isn't for the illegals themselves, it's for potential harrassment and mistreatment of the legally documented people that are likely to be unfairly profiled due to this new law.

Just as a possible scenario, If I'm driving through Arizona and get pulled over by a cop because one of my back taillights goes out, then he starts giving my wife crap because she is Latina and speaks English with a strong accent it would make both of us very upset. She is legally permitted to be in this country and deserves to be treated like a legal resident of this country. My point is just because somebody looks foreign and doesn't speak English as his/her first language draws absolutely no conclusion about the person's immigration status because there are tons of people in this country who fit that description and are legal...my wife included.
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Old 05-26-2010, 12:44 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 5,662,156 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slig View Post
The concern isn't for the illegals themselves, it's for potential harrassment and mistreatment of the legally documented people that are likely to be unfairly profiled due to this new law.

Just as a possible scenario, If I'm driving through Arizona and get pulled over by a cop because one of my back taillights goes out, then he starts giving my wife crap because she is Latina and speaks English with a strong accent it would make both of us very upset. She is legally permitted to be in this country and deserves to be treated like a legal resident of this country. My point is just because somebody looks foreign and doesn't speak English as his/her first language draws absolutely no conclusion about the person's immigration status because there are tons of people in this country who fit that description and are legal...my wife included.
You are creating scenarios that are not a reality because the law prohibits racial profiling. Here is the "real" scenario with the tail light stop. LE will only ask you for your I.D. because YOU were the one driving the car, not her. I don't know of any cop that asks everyone in the care for their I.D. in the case of a broken tail light. But even if he asks your wife for I.D. and it wouldn't be because she looks Latina or doesn't speak good English either that would be racial profiling. So what that she has an accent? Many Americans and legal immigrants have accents. The only thing she needs is her I.D. if she is a citizen and a green card if she is a legal immigrant. There, do you see how that works now?
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Old 05-26-2010, 01:00 PM
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
4,927 posts, read 8,136,416 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
You are creating scenarios that are not a reality because the law prohibits racial profiling. Here is the "real" scenario with the tail light stop. LE will only ask you for your I.D. because YOU were the one driving the car, not her. I don't know of any cop that asks everyone in the care for their I.D. in the case of a broken tail light. But even if he asks your wife for I.D. and it wouldn't be because she looks Latina or doesn't speak good English either that would be racial profiling. So what that she has an accent? Many Americans and legal immigrants have accents. The only thing she needs is her I.D. if she is a citizen and a green card if she is a legal immigrant. There, do you see how that works now?
Ok, well this goes back to my original question then, what could possibly cause "REASONABLE SUSPICION THAT THE PERSON IS AN ALIEN WHO IS UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES" if it can't be done through racial profiling, grasp of the English language, etc.

I also don't understand what good it would be to present a federally issued document to a law enforcement officer who likely doesn't have access to that database anyway and would have to refer it to the Department of Homeland Security. Most legal aliens have other documents, such as a social security card and state issued ID...why wouldn't that be good enough? I would assume said state law enforcement guy would much more easily be able to look somebody up by their state issued ID than the federally issued one.

My wife, much like I do, will carry her state issued ID wherever she goes. Like I stated in a previous post, it is much easier to replace that if lost or stolen than a green card.

Last edited by Cruz Azul Guy; 05-26-2010 at 01:15 PM..
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Old 05-26-2010, 02:07 PM
 
Location: San Diego
16,724 posts, read 12,368,973 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1751texan View Post
The poorly writen Arizona immigration law is the latest..."pin my hopes on" idea that the anti-immigrant crowd has.

This crowd claims to be supported by a majority of Ameicans, yet has failed to sponser any Major form of legislation, or move any Major legislation on the National front. And has not passed one major form of immigration reform.

No 14th amendment wording.
No repeal of Free Education to children of undocumented aliens.
No completion of US-Mexico border fence.
No new Border Patrol agents on the border.
No new ferderal legislation restricting aliens from recieving college tuition.
No New federal legeslation restricting undocumented workers to recieving workmen's compenstion.
No National E-verify system inplace.
No national identification.

So fight about Arizona...and like Nero you play the same ol song while Rome burns.
Looks like you have one less thing to cheer on during the deterioration of the Country.
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Old 05-26-2010, 05:58 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 5,662,156 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slig View Post
Ok, well this goes back to my original question then, what could possibly cause "REASONABLE SUSPICION THAT THE PERSON IS AN ALIEN WHO IS UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES" if it can't be done through racial profiling, grasp of the English language, etc.

I also don't understand what good it would be to present a federally issued document to a law enforcement officer who likely doesn't have access to that database anyway and would have to refer it to the Department of Homeland Security. Most legal aliens have other documents, such as a social security card and state issued ID...why wouldn't that be good enough? I would assume said state law enforcement guy would much more easily be able to look somebody up by their state issued ID than the federally issued one.

My wife, much like I do, will carry her state issued ID wherever she goes. Like I stated in a previous post, it is much easier to replace that if lost or stolen than a green card.
We have gone over this numerous times in this forum. "Reasonable suspicion" only comes into play if the person being lawfully contacted by the police doesn't have valid I.D. on them(if you are a citizen). It doesn't matter if they don't speak good English or look a certain way if you are a legal immigrant and have your green card with you that is all that is required. Now you have to agree, that isn't racial profiling. We are all asked for our I.D. when the police stop us during lawful contact.

I would suggest that your wife carry her green card with her along with her other I.D. as it is already mandated by law. If not, and she is stopped then it is her own fault for not abiding by that law.

Someone else in here has already stated that the police do have a database to check on a citizen's I.D.
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Old 05-27-2010, 08:53 AM
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
4,927 posts, read 8,136,416 times
Reputation: 1606
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
We have gone over this numerous times in this forum. "Reasonable suspicion" only comes into play if the person being lawfully contacted by the police doesn't have valid I.D. on them(if you are a citizen). It doesn't matter if they don't speak good English or look a certain way if you are a legal immigrant and have your green card with you that is all that is required. Now you have to agree, that isn't racial profiling. We are all asked for our I.D. when the police stop us during lawful contact.

I would suggest that your wife carry her green card with her along with her other I.D. as it is already mandated by law. If not, and she is stopped then it is her own fault for not abiding by that law.
If that's the case it would probably make sense to be more specific and clarify that in the text of the law. The vagueness is what bothers me most about it. I still don't agree with the carrying the green card at all times rule, if it was easier to get a replacement green card maybe but nobody on here seems to understand what an excrutiating process that is. As long as the permanent resident knows what his/her Alien # is and has a state issued ID you'd think that'd be enough...maybe carry a copy of the document as well?

Quote:
Someone else in here has already stated that the police do have a database to check on a citizen's I.D.
I've established that they have access to a database for state issued IDs, but are you sure they have access to a database for federally issued IDs such as passports, permanent residency cards, etc.? I'd really like to get verification of that.
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