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Old 05-25-2010, 04:02 PM
 
Location: Verde Valley AZ
8,219 posts, read 9,097,318 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GalileoSmith View Post
It wouldn't surprise me too much if the AZ law ends up having some slight effect on the number of illegal immigrants. If nothing else, it might slow down their growth numbers.

For the record, I am sympathetic towards the plight of illegal immigrants. They are, after all, only trying to improve their standard of living. But so are the Americans who are competing with illegal immigrants for jobs and human services. And my allegiance has to fall for the home team.
Well, two years ago we lost about 100,000 of them but that still left over 400,000.

I'm not so sympathetic anymore. Maybe they should all start a revolution in Mexico and get their government to improve things for them there. Then they wouldn't have to come here to "improve" anything. Mexico needs to get off it's butt and help it's own people but I do understand that they like those billions of dollars they get from the illegals here. But that makes me wonder, if they are so poorly paid here how can they send home that much money. Maybe because of their sheer numbers and there are just too many of them. I've always wished there was a way to bill Mexico to get back all the billions we've paid out to 'their people' in entitlements.
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Old 05-25-2010, 04:03 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,146,155 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZDesertBrat View Post
I agree, wholeheartedly, but it's been going on for a long time. Not for me but for a lot of others. The only way I've felt, somewhat, discriminated against is when I read an ad that I am totally qualified for BUT they either prefer or even require Spanish.
And the reason for that is these businesses want to cater to Spanish speaking illegals. Most Hispanic-Americans are bi-lingual and can speak English so it isn't them that they are catering to. That is what really pisses me off!
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Old 05-25-2010, 07:33 PM
 
Location: Bella Vista, Ark
69,278 posts, read 79,447,244 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZDesertBrat View Post
I think, when people refer to jobs "no American is willing to do", they are mostly thinking agriculture. And I think this used to be true because it was long, hot, hard and back breaking work. However, in the state of AZ there aren't nearly as many agricultural jobs as there used to be. Fewer farms, more mechanized ways of harvesting and fewer workers needed. I expect it was agriculture that used to hire the most and we always had a 'guest worker' program for them. They came for the season and went back home. Then they decided to stay here and bring their families. And they haven't stopped coming.

Over time they began to take more jobs in hospitality, construction, retail sales...if they spoke English well enough...fast food, restaurants, etc. etc.. THOSE are the jobs they were taking from Americans. And legal immigrants. So, no, I don't believe Americans won't work the same jobs. They DID, long before the illegals even thought about it.

As for wages being lower...I can't really say whether or not they are paid horribly lower wages. At least not in my work...hospitality and restaurants. Whether they were legal or illegal they made the same as we did. My nephew has worked in dry wall for years and years and he told me that ALL their workers made the same money regardless of legality. He also said that his company is using the E-verify program much more these days and few illegals are slipping through. They don't, however, report them to ICE or anyone else. Just let them go apply elsewhere.
and this is why we need a workers program of some kind, but that isn't the same as allowing illegals to work, get benefits, etc in our country. I think you have the right idea. Yes, it probably did start with the farming industry. In Vegas, last I heard min wage for a hotel housekeeper was $12 an hour to start plus benefits and of course tips, it is rare I have seen any of them speak English, certainly not fluetly. This doesn't mean they are illegals necessarily, but it is an indication.

Nita
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Old 05-25-2010, 07:34 PM
 
Location: southern california
55,237 posts, read 72,402,860 times
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sunday was in AZ. astounding ---the fast food places are staffed by white people.
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Old 05-25-2010, 07:41 PM
 
3,951 posts, read 3,582,217 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GalileoSmith View Post
"Jobs No Americans Are Willing To do", I heard this again this morning on a local news show in regards to the Arizona law. I think it ought to be made clear that there is no such job that "no American is willing to do". Americans will do any job if the pay is right. Hiring illegal immigrants to undercut a job's fair market value is not hiring an illegal immigrant to fill a job that no American wants.

Here's the dynamic behind it... A roofing company hires illegal immigrants at $8 an hour so the company will not have to pay an American worker $12 an hour. The American worker who would have been doing that roofing job is instead working at Walmart for $9 an hour. The American worker is sacrificing a much needed $3 an hour because the roofing company is saving money by hiring illegal immigrants. The person most harmed by the massive illegal immigrant problem are the American workers at the lower end of the pay scale. Their value has essentially been diluted by millions of mostly unskilled illegal immigrants. Business owners whose businesses focus on unskilled labor (such as roofing and landscape companies) are those who benefit.

To be forthright, if the roofing company did hire only American workers at $12 an hour, the customer would be charged slightly more for the roof on his house. So there is a small trade-off.
EXACTLY! I've been trying to explain this to anyone that uses that played-out line of: "Jobs Americans won't do." We, as US citizens and intelligent legal residents know what we deserve and we know that we are in a position to demand the wages that are fair for our work, so, we won't settle for less. With illegal immigrants, they are usually living in great numbers in a house or apartment and they work together to afford to be here on lower wages. If they were not here, those jobs that they are taking would be opened up for legal residents and employers couldn't force those low wages on us. I know that employers take advantage of illegal workers. The illegal immigrant comes in, his friend brings him, he sits down, the friends translates, the illegal immigrant sees that dollar sign and he is happy to see that, he wants to get what he can get. He/she also probably has ANOTHER job that pays the same and put together, he is making about $12 and hour for 60-80 hours a week. There is NO way he could get that work in the country he came from, it's lovely for him here. But, what about that legal resident that is undercut by the illegal immigrant?
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Old 05-25-2010, 11:06 PM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
60,085 posts, read 30,599,526 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GalileoSmith View Post
"Jobs No Americans Are Willing To do", I heard this again this morning on a local news show in regards to the Arizona law. I think it ought to be made clear that there is no such job that "no American is willing to do". Americans will do any job if the pay is right. Hiring illegal immigrants to undercut a job's fair market value is not hiring an illegal immigrant to fill a job that no American wants.

Here's the dynamic behind it... A roofing company hires illegal immigrants at $8 an hour so the company will not have to pay an American worker $12 an hour. The American worker who would have been doing that roofing job is instead working at Walmart for $9 an hour. The American worker is sacrificing a much needed $3 an hour because the roofing company is saving money by hiring illegal immigrants. The person most harmed by the massive illegal immigrant problem are the American workers at the lower end of the pay scale. Their value has essentially been diluted by millions of mostly unskilled illegal immigrants. Business owners whose businesses focus on unskilled labor (such as roofing and landscape companies) are those who benefit.

To be forthright, if the roofing company did hire only American workers at $12 an hour, the customer would be charged slightly more for the roof on his house. So there is a small trade-off.



You mean the jobs Americans can no longer afford to do.

I'm victim of 3 careers I loved, being ripped from me, or go into deep poverty.
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Old 05-26-2010, 10:10 AM
 
Location: Verde Valley AZ
8,219 posts, read 9,097,318 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
And the reason for that is these businesses want to cater to Spanish speaking illegals. Most Hispanic-Americans are bi-lingual and can speak English so it isn't them that they are catering to. That is what really pisses me off!
Not sure they "cater" to illegals but you're right that most Hispanic-Americans are bilingual. Working in the hotel business we had lots of Spanish speaking guests, not necessarily from Mexico but from all over. So, I guess it makes sense to have bilingual people on the front desk. BUT there are plenty of us who aren't and most groups DO have English speaking guides, etc..
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Old 05-26-2010, 10:16 AM
 
Location: Verde Valley AZ
8,219 posts, read 9,097,318 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nmnita View Post
and this is why we need a workers program of some kind, but that isn't the same as allowing illegals to work, get benefits, etc in our country. I think you have the right idea. Yes, it probably did start with the farming industry. In Vegas, last I heard min wage for a hotel housekeeper was $12 an hour to start plus benefits and of course tips, it is rare I have seen any of them speak English, certainly not fluetly. This doesn't mean they are illegals necessarily, but it is an indication.

Nita
AZ has always had a 'guest worker' program. It was used years ago and who knows about now?

Vegas housekeepers are lucky to make $12 hour but I think they also have a hospitality union now as well. I know restaurant workers do. In AZ they still average $8.50 hour with NO benefits. And the hotel I was working at started paying them by the ROOM, at $4.25! It works out the same because they are only allowed a half hour per room. Where they get screwed is if the occupants left a huge mess that requires extra cleaning and that happens fairly often. We had housekeepers quit over that new 'rule' and I didn't blame them a bit. AZ has always sucked when it comes to fair wages.
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Old 05-26-2010, 10:32 AM
 
Location: High Plains
79 posts, read 120,133 times
Reputation: 104
Jobs U.S. citizens won't do include picking produce crops and deboning chickens. A solution: use our overflowing prison population to do those jobs, instead of letting the convicted felons, many of whom are illegals, deal drugs and lift weights at our expense.
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Old 05-26-2010, 01:08 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,146,155 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by AZDesertBrat View Post
Not sure they "cater" to illegals but you're right that most Hispanic-Americans are bilingual. Working in the hotel business we had lots of Spanish speaking guests, not necessarily from Mexico but from all over. So, I guess it makes sense to have bilingual people on the front desk. BUT there are plenty of us who aren't and most groups DO have English speaking guides, etc..
We have tourists from all over the world. I don't see us accomodating anyone but Spanish speakers and that is why I said they are catering to illegal aliens as most of them are Spanish speakers.
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