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Old 05-25-2010, 10:44 AM
 
Location: Here
1,684 posts, read 1,427,795 times
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"Jobs No Americans Are Willing To do", I heard this again this morning on a local news show in regards to the Arizona law. I think it ought to be made clear that there is no such job that "no American is willing to do". Americans will do any job if the pay is right. Hiring illegal immigrants to undercut a job's fair market value is not hiring an illegal immigrant to fill a job that no American wants.

Here's the dynamic behind it... A roofing company hires illegal immigrants at $8 an hour so the company will not have to pay an American worker $12 an hour. The American worker who would have been doing that roofing job is instead working at Walmart for $9 an hour. The American worker is sacrificing a much needed $3 an hour because the roofing company is saving money by hiring illegal immigrants. The person most harmed by the massive illegal immigrant problem are the American workers at the lower end of the pay scale. Their value has essentially been diluted by millions of mostly unskilled illegal immigrants. Business owners whose businesses focus on unskilled labor (such as roofing and landscape companies) are those who benefit.

To be forthright, if the roofing company did hire only American workers at $12 an hour, the customer would be charged slightly more for the roof on his house. So there is a small trade-off.
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Old 05-25-2010, 11:11 AM
 
Location: Verde Valley AZ
8,260 posts, read 9,105,157 times
Reputation: 10415
Quote:
Originally Posted by GalileoSmith View Post
"Jobs No Americans Are Willing To do", I heard this again this morning on a local news show in regards to the Arizona law. I think it ought to be made clear that there is no such job that "no American is willing to do". Americans will do any job if the pay is right. Hiring illegal immigrants to undercut a job's fair market value is not hiring an illegal immigrant to fill a job that no American wants.

Here's the dynamic behind it... A roofing company hires illegal immigrants at $8 an hour so the company will not have to pay an American worker $12 an hour. The American worker who would have been doing that roofing job is instead working at Walmart for $9 an hour. The American worker is sacrificing a much needed $3 an hour because the roofing company is saving money by hiring illegal immigrants. The person most harmed by the massive illegal immigrant problem are the American workers at the lower end of the pay scale. Their value has essentially been diluted by millions of mostly unskilled illegal immigrants. Business owners whose businesses focus on unskilled labor (such as roofing and landscape companies) are those who benefit.

To be forthright, if the roofing company did hire only American workers at $12 an hour, the customer would be charged slightly more for the roof on his house. So there is a small trade-off.
I think, when people refer to jobs "no American is willing to do", they are mostly thinking agriculture. And I think this used to be true because it was long, hot, hard and back breaking work. However, in the state of AZ there aren't nearly as many agricultural jobs as there used to be. Fewer farms, more mechanized ways of harvesting and fewer workers needed. I expect it was agriculture that used to hire the most and we always had a 'guest worker' program for them. They came for the season and went back home. Then they decided to stay here and bring their families. And they haven't stopped coming.

Over time they began to take more jobs in hospitality, construction, retail sales...if they spoke English well enough...fast food, restaurants, etc. etc.. THOSE are the jobs they were taking from Americans. And legal immigrants. So, no, I don't believe Americans won't work the same jobs. They DID, long before the illegals even thought about it.

As for wages being lower...I can't really say whether or not they are paid horribly lower wages. At least not in my work...hospitality and restaurants. Whether they were legal or illegal they made the same as we did. My nephew has worked in dry wall for years and years and he told me that ALL their workers made the same money regardless of legality. He also said that his company is using the E-verify program much more these days and few illegals are slipping through. They don't, however, report them to ICE or anyone else. Just let them go apply elsewhere.
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Old 05-25-2010, 11:23 AM
 
Location: Here
1,684 posts, read 1,427,795 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZDesertBrat View Post
I think, when people refer to jobs "no American is willing to do", they are mostly thinking agriculture. And I think this used to be true because it was long, hot, hard and back breaking work. However, in the state of AZ there aren't nearly as many agricultural jobs as there used to be. Fewer farms, more mechanized ways of harvesting and fewer workers needed. I expect it was agriculture that used to hire the most and we always had a 'guest worker' program for them. They came for the season and went back home. Then they decided to stay here and bring their families. And they haven't stopped coming.

Over time they began to take more jobs in hospitality, construction, retail sales...if they spoke English well enough...fast food, restaurants, etc. etc.. THOSE are the jobs they were taking from Americans. And legal immigrants. So, no, I don't believe Americans won't work the same jobs. They DID, long before the illegals even thought about it.

As for wages being lower...I can't really say whether or not they are paid horribly lower wages. At least not in my work...hospitality and restaurants. Whether they were legal or illegal they made the same as we did. My nephew has worked in dry wall for years and years and he told me that ALL their workers made the same money regardless of legality. He also said that his company is using the E-verify program much more these days and few illegals are slipping through. They don't, however, report them to ICE or anyone else. Just let them go apply elsewhere.
My example was during normal economic times in this country. These days it is very possible that an illegal immigrant is working a job that would be filled by an American worker who is now umemployed.

As for my example when focusing on better economic times, the market place decides how much a person is to be paid. Any potential employee in an open market is under the influences of supply and demand. When the supply is high, then the value goes down. When it comes to unskilled workers, illegal immigrants flood the job market with unskilled labor, thus increasing the supply, and driving down wages.
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Old 05-25-2010, 11:36 AM
 
Location: Verde Valley AZ
8,260 posts, read 9,105,157 times
Reputation: 10415
Quote:
Originally Posted by GalileoSmith View Post
My example was during normal economic times in this country. These days it is very possible that an illegal immigrant is working a job that would be filled by an American worker who is now umemployed.

As for my example when focusing on better economic times, the market place decides how much a person is to be paid. Any potential employee in an open market is under the influences of supply and demand. When the supply is high, then the value goes down. When it comes to unskilled workers, illegal immigrants flood the job market with unskilled labor, thus increasing the supply, and driving down wages.
I don't know where you're from, or what your labor laws are, but AZ is a 'right to work' state which means no unions and goes by Fed. wage requirements. From what I've seen, in my many years of working here, the supply and demand really doesn't have much to do with whether wages go up or down. As long as they pay minimum, or over, that's what it is. If you don't like it go try someplace else. There's always someone who'll work for the wage offered. Legal, illegal or American born.

What is actually considered "unskilled labor"? Seems like there are skills required in every job I know of whether it's landscaping, construction, hospitality or whatever. Even dishwashers in restaurants have to have SOME skills to do the job right.
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Old 05-25-2010, 11:46 AM
 
76 posts, read 70,338 times
Reputation: 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by GalileoSmith View Post
"Jobs No Americans Are Willing To do", I heard this again this morning on a local news show in regards to the Arizona law. I think it ought to be made clear that there is no such job that "no American is willing to do". Americans will do any job if the pay is right. Hiring illegal immigrants to undercut a job's fair market value is not hiring an illegal immigrant to fill a job that no American wants.

Here's the dynamic behind it... A roofing company hires illegal immigrants at $8 an hour so the company will not have to pay an American worker $12 an hour. The American worker who would have been doing that roofing job is instead working at Walmart for $9 an hour. The American worker is sacrificing a much needed $3 an hour because the roofing company is saving money by hiring illegal immigrants. The person most harmed by the massive illegal immigrant problem are the American workers at the lower end of the pay scale. Their value has essentially been diluted by millions of mostly unskilled illegal immigrants. Business owners whose businesses focus on unskilled labor (such as roofing and landscape companies) are those who benefit.

To be forthright, if the roofing company did hire only American workers at $12 an hour, the customer would be charged slightly more for the roof on his house. So there is a small trade-off.

have you done a roof job on your house before using these company who hired the illegal? OMG, they did a worse job ever. I meant EVER. The workers cannot understand, speak English or do their job properly. They carelessly did their job. I'm still not happy with my roof. I rather pay little more for AMERICAN workers who love their job and did it properly.

If you do not know what i'm talking about. Bring your car to get tire replacement at Walmart (not to mention the local shop) and try American Tires next time you need replacement. You will see the different in customer service & job quality.
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Old 05-25-2010, 12:04 PM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
43 posts, read 33,258 times
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I get weary of this argument too. I'm certain that with our economy the way it is, and unemployment so high, there would be plenty of out of work Americans who would gladly do the jobs freed up if illegals were to be deported.
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Old 05-25-2010, 03:15 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,152,437 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZDesertBrat View Post
I don't know where you're from, or what your labor laws are, but AZ is a 'right to work' state which means no unions and goes by Fed. wage requirements. From what I've seen, in my many years of working here, the supply and demand really doesn't have much to do with whether wages go up or down. As long as they pay minimum, or over, that's what it is. If you don't like it go try someplace else. There's always someone who'll work for the wage offered. Legal, illegal or American born.

What is actually considered "unskilled labor"? Seems like there are skills required in every job I know of whether it's landscaping, construction, hospitality or whatever. Even dishwashers in restaurants have to have SOME skills to do the job right.
No American should have to compete with an illegal alien for a job in this country. It is against the law.
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Old 05-25-2010, 03:24 PM
 
Location: Verde Valley AZ
8,260 posts, read 9,105,157 times
Reputation: 10415
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Originally Posted by JLer2562 View Post
I get weary of this argument too. I'm certain that with our economy the way it is, and unemployment so high, there would be plenty of out of work Americans who would gladly do the jobs freed up if illegals were to be deported.
I was talking to my sister in law this morning and she works for our local newspaper. Evidently they are putting TONS of help wanted ads in the paper because the illegals are quitting and leaving! The hotels are losing housekeeping people, restaurants are losing cooks, dishwashers and bussers, etc.. This is good news for a lot of people. And there ARE legals and Americans wanting those jobs.
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Old 05-25-2010, 03:34 PM
 
Location: Here
1,684 posts, read 1,427,795 times
Reputation: 1313
Quote:
Originally Posted by AZDesertBrat View Post
I was talking to my sister in law this morning and she works for our local newspaper. Evidently they are putting TONS of help wanted ads in the paper because the illegals are quitting and leaving! The hotels are losing housekeeping people, restaurants are losing cooks, dishwashers and bussers, etc.. This is good news for a lot of people. And there ARE legals and Americans wanting those jobs.
It wouldn't surprise me too much if the AZ law ends up having some slight effect on the number of illegal immigrants. If nothing else, it might slow down their growth numbers.

For the record, I am sympathetic towards the plight of illegal immigrants. They are, after all, only trying to improve their standard of living. But so are the Americans who are competing with illegal immigrants for jobs and human services. And my allegiance has to fall for the home team.
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Old 05-25-2010, 03:57 PM
 
Location: Verde Valley AZ
8,260 posts, read 9,105,157 times
Reputation: 10415
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
No American should have to compete with an illegal alien for a job in this country. It is against the law.
I agree, wholeheartedly, but it's been going on for a long time. Not for me but for a lot of others. The only way I've felt, somewhat, discriminated against is when I read an ad that I am totally qualified for BUT they either prefer or even require Spanish.
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