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Old 05-26-2010, 09:32 AM
 
Location: Pa
20,300 posts, read 22,182,754 times
Reputation: 6552

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Quote:
Originally Posted by zacatecana View Post
I trully believe that the troops will make a difference. I believe that we will see that in the increased number of deportees. From what I read, some will be armed, not all. I dont know if this is a matter of not enough money in the budget. I think that its has taken way too long for Obama to order the troops there and it has created this sense or lack of credibility from us Americans. If there is one good thing that we all can thank Jan for is this-publicly calling for federal help that had for whatever reason been ignored.

Here is a video on the subject:

Stimulus Cash to Secure the Border? (http://news.yahoo.com/video/politics-15749652/20007803#video=20012551 - broken link)
What difference can they make if they are used only as window dressing?
Will they be allowed to use force? Will they be allowed to make arrests and detain?
Or
Will they be used to radio in sightings?
a scenario for you.
Guard on observer duty:
Bravo 1 this is challenger 1 we have 6 suspected illegals crossing border
grid 15 over.
Roger challenger 1 this is bravo1 all units are currently engaged. Take note of description pass it on to your duty officer. over.
bravo 1 this is challenger request permission to apprehend. over....
Roger challenger 1 that is a negative on the apprehension. Observe and report only. Over
This challenger 1 roger out.
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Old 05-26-2010, 09:45 AM
 
Location: ...at a 3AM epiphany
2,205 posts, read 2,531,606 times
Reputation: 453
He needs to STRONGLY address this Nation He needs to STRONGLY end illegal immigration and birthright citizenship (SCOTUS). Even his own party is disgusted with him.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/var/plain/storage/images/media/obama_index_graphics/may_2010/obama_approval_index_may_26_2010/316535-1-eng-US/obama_approval_index_may_26_2010.jpg (broken link)
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Old 05-26-2010, 09:52 AM
 
Location: OCEAN BREEZES AND VIEWS SAN CLEMENTE
19,893 posts, read 18,409,927 times
Reputation: 6465
In a pinch, Obama is one hek of a smart COOKIE!
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Old 05-26-2010, 09:55 AM
 
Location: Verde Valley AZ
8,775 posts, read 11,878,841 times
Reputation: 11485
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
What difference can they make if they are used only as window dressing?
Will they be allowed to use force? Will they be allowed to make arrests and detain?
Or
Will they be used to radio in sightings?
a scenario for you.
Guard on observer duty:
Bravo 1 this is challenger 1 we have 6 suspected illegals crossing border
grid 15 over.
Roger challenger 1 this is bravo1 all units are currently engaged. Take note of description pass it on to your duty officer. over.
bravo 1 this is challenger request permission to apprehend. over....
Roger challenger 1 that is a negative on the apprehension. Observe and report only. Over
This challenger 1 roger out.
Actually, you are pretty darn close! I think this is a half a$$ed attempt to placate those who want the border secured. And does nothing to adress the millions of illegals that are already here.

The law (posse comitatus) prevents National Guard troops from making arrests on the border. Mostly all they are allowed to do is sit on a hilltop, observe and report any activity they see to the Border Patrol. The National Guard can't touch them and I think the illegals know this.

McCain wants 3,000 more Border Patrol Agents to be hired in AZ. Well, that would require scheduling 60 new classes for training and take about 60 weeks to fill them all. There are approx. 50 trainees in each class which lasts 5 mos. for each class, plus about a month of Spanish. As of right now most of the new recruits ARE scheduled for AZ after training.

To accomodate 3,000 more Border Patrol Agents they would have to build new stations to work out of and buy another thousand trucks at approx. $50,000 each. Add to that the cost of gas to operate them...30 gals. of gas per shift @ $3 gallon and they do use about that much.

It takes a LOT of money and logistical planning to do much of anything on the border. I guess we will see what happens and how successful...or unsuccessful...it is.
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Old 05-26-2010, 10:04 AM
 
Location: ...at a 3AM epiphany
2,205 posts, read 2,531,606 times
Reputation: 453
We can build stations for our NG troops and use the area for our training purposes. THAT would be a good deterrent. I've seen places go up in a matter of months. Just make military bases along the border. I doubt many would cross our bases illegally.
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Old 05-26-2010, 10:21 AM
 
Location: Verde Valley AZ
8,775 posts, read 11,878,841 times
Reputation: 11485
Quote:
Originally Posted by getout View Post
We can build stations for our NG troops and use the area for our training purposes. THAT would be a good deterrent. I've seen places go up in a matter of months. Just make military bases along the border. I doubt many would cross our bases illegally.
Any idea how much that would cost? And how much our taxes would escalate? To me it's pretty mind boggling. We do have military bases in So. AZ already. Just not right ON the border but darn close. I think Yuma is less than 50 miles from the border.
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Old 05-26-2010, 10:29 AM
 
Location: ...at a 3AM epiphany
2,205 posts, read 2,531,606 times
Reputation: 453
Just a suggestion, no I do not have any idea how much it would cost. I was hoping some others would give answers so I can either encourage or put to rest this suggestion. To me military presence (true presence) makes sense. Maybe if one were shut down, another to be opened? Some type of military presence on our borders to secure them. I mean, if all the monies that were allocated toward the fence could be used, or finding monies from other sources, all the monies saved by getting illegal aliens off of our SS systems, etc.?
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Old 05-27-2010, 02:24 AM
 
2,381 posts, read 5,035,671 times
Reputation: 482
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
What difference can they make if they are used only as window dressing?
Will they be allowed to use force? Will they be allowed to make arrests and detain?
Or
Will they be used to radio in sightings?
a scenario for you.
Guard on observer duty:
Bravo 1 this is challenger 1 we have 6 suspected illegals crossing border
grid 15 over.
Roger challenger 1 this is bravo1 all units are currently engaged. Take note of description pass it on to your duty officer. over.
bravo 1 this is challenger request permission to apprehend. over....
Roger challenger 1 that is a negative on the apprehension. Observe and report only. Over
This challenger 1 roger out.
I dont think the troops have the skills and educational background ICE officers have. It would literally take months of training and we dont have the resources or the time to do it. If the troops focus on tracking down illegal transpassers that would free up ICE officers and ICE can focus on detaining and processing. I still think this is a step in the right direction but I get your point. Just simply not trained for it.
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Old 05-27-2010, 08:45 AM
 
Location: Verde Valley AZ
8,775 posts, read 11,878,841 times
Reputation: 11485
Quote:
Originally Posted by zacatecana View Post
I dont think the troops have the skills and educational background ICE officers have. It would literally take months of training and we dont have the resources or the time to do it. If the troops focus on tracking down illegal transpassers that would free up ICE officers and ICE can focus on detaining and processing. I still think this is a step in the right direction but I get your point. Just simply not trained for it.
The Border Patrol and ICE are way better trained when it comes to immigration law and things like that. From what I've been reading it seems to me that those National Guard people are being put there to help cut down on the drug smugglers more than the "ordinary illegal". They can report what they see, I guess, but I don't know how they'd tell a drug smuggler from an "ordinary illegal". Like everything else, you can't tell by looking. Although, in the videos I've seen the smugglers all seem to be carrying large backpacks, all sealed and wrapped the same, so I guess it would be easy to assume... If I'm not mistaken the drug 'problem' was mentioned a lot during Obama's and Caldaron's speeches so I got the idea they weren't worried, really, about much more than that. Drugs and violence but NOT the rest.
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Old 05-27-2010, 03:37 PM
 
Location: Lake Norman, North Carolina
1,213 posts, read 1,629,024 times
Reputation: 393
Quote:
Originally Posted by AZDesertBrat View Post
Actually, you are pretty darn close! I think this is a half a$$ed attempt to placate those who want the border secured. And does nothing to adress the millions of illegals that are already here.

The law (posse comitatus) prevents National Guard troops from making arrests on the border. Mostly all they are allowed to do is sit on a hilltop, observe and report any activity they see to the Border Patrol. The National Guard can't touch them and I think the illegals know this.

McCain wants 3,000 more Border Patrol Agents to be hired in AZ. Well, that would require scheduling 60 new classes for training and take about 60 weeks to fill them all. There are approx. 50 trainees in each class which lasts 5 mos. for each class, plus about a month of Spanish. As of right now most of the new recruits ARE scheduled for AZ after training.

To accomodate 3,000 more Border Patrol Agents they would have to build new stations to work out of and buy another thousand trucks at approx. $50,000 each. Add to that the cost of gas to operate them...30 gals. of gas per shift @ $3 gallon and they do use about that much.

It takes a LOT of money and logistical planning to do much of anything on the border. I guess we will see what happens and how successful...or unsuccessful...it is.
Plans need to be underway now so that after the majority of the marxists in Congress are replaced by conservatives in Nov, Congress could initiate action to enact a new law that would set forth in clear terms a statement of the rules for using military forces for homeland security and for enforcing the laws of the United States. Things have changed a lot since 1878, and the Posse Comitatus Act is not only irrelevant but is an impediment to the actual needs and effective use of military forces for domestic duties. Up to 10,000 unwanted uninvited illegal border jumpers and terrorists breaking in every day, day after day, and we can't put armed NG troops patroling along the border because of a vague ambiguous antiquated law that the marxists hide behind?
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