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Old 05-25-2010, 06:55 PM
 
Location: southern california
55,237 posts, read 72,402,860 times
Reputation: 47449

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no relation at all between the legal and native born jews in germany who were mistreated, and the illegal mexican people working in the united states. the jews produced and contributed to germany. the mexican illegals are an enormous strain on the welfare system esp medical.
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Old 05-25-2010, 06:57 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
5,771 posts, read 6,967,531 times
Reputation: 3507
Quote:
Originally Posted by TriMT7 View Post
mlass, with all due respect, I'm not sure how much you have experienced first hand with respect to the negative effects of illegal immigration in Vernon Connecticut.

I for one am happy there is FINALLY some focus on this issue, after years of neglect.

Cesar Chavez himself was against illegal immigration because he recognized it undercut workers in the United States. I am fairly socially liberal, but not very sympathetic to cries about "racism" and "scapegoating," because every dollar that goes to pay to subsidize an illegal immigrants family, or to educate his anchor children or provide public assistance to same are dollars that are NOT being spent on Americans and invited immigrants.

I've also seen the strain on public education, neighborhood degredation and strain on hospital services that come from living in an area with a high level of "extra legal" immigration.

My father is a legal immigrant. He worked construction in the late 80s for $8/hour before getting hurt and diabled on the job. Fast forward to 2010... the prevailing wage for construction jobs is now about the same. The white and black guys my father worked with back then have been largely replaced. Did these Americans suddenly decide they don't want to do construction anymore? When I visit Ohio, white and black guys are working on the highways, construction, etc., so that cannot be the case.

Capitalist GREED is a major factor, as is a willingness to flaunt our laws and take advantage of our system exhibited by many illegal immigrants (pregnancy tourism, etc.)

I only wish that we could have a more vigorous two prong approach: Go after employers who use illegal SLAVE labor, and after illegal immigrantion. Streamline guest worker programs for industries that REALLY need such labor to survive (this system is already in place, but business is no lazy and dependent on their backway of doing things that it is often ignored). Attack supply AND demand for illegal labor.


The fact that nobody with common sense or level headedness has stepped into the picture until now has ALLOWED extremism to enter the picture on the issue on both ends of the debate!
It helps that the unions in places such as the Rust Belt and interior NE are against illegal immigration because it would undermine and anger all of the workers in that area.
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Old 05-25-2010, 07:03 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,612,395 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by TriMT7 View Post
I am more concerned about the implementation of AZ SB 2010, which will require all persons of suspected "Latino" origin and/or swarthy complexion to paint the flag representing the country of their origin on their pickup trucks or to hang one from their rear view mirrors.

I heard that Arizona law enforcement has targeted certain areas of the state to test the pilot program, which many Hispanic activists are likening to forcing the Jews to wear stars of David:


I see your point. The implications are frightening. With the 'uniformed goon squads' running rampant under 'color of law', pulling over anyone they 'darn well feel like', who knows? Perhaps they'll even target any car bearing 'New Mexico' plates, threatening to deport the occupants 'back to your own country'. It doesn't take a PhD to become a cop...right? Perhaps they'll deport American Indians to Mumbai....or target people who they KNOW aren't illegal, but "could be".

Finally, disturbingly, your photo (above) brings up a tricky conundrum. Who's to say that some winter Snowbird down from Vancouver or Kamloops, soujourning for the winter months with his "British Columbia" plates, might not be hassled by the cops down in Yuma, and told to "go back to Bogota". After all, "British Colombia" may not be any less believable than any OTHER place of origin, given the narrow-minded focus of this law. There are a LOT of dark-skinned Hindus in Vancouver, after all...and with all the racism, this could get REALLY confusing.

I'd say to be safe, just avoid Arizona altogether. It's well on its way to just becoming another South Africa. There are WAY too many places to vacation better than that....and the Grand Canyon, after all, is simply an example of soil erosion allowed to continue unchecked. Oh, it's DEEP, for sure...but hardly anything to be proud of.
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Old 05-25-2010, 07:13 PM
 
Location: New London County, CT
8,950 posts, read 9,812,330 times
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Just for the record... I am pro secure strong borders that limit the number of illegal immigrants. I don't have a lot of sympathy for those who come here to cause trouble... I have all the empathy for those who come here to work and find a better life for their family... Regardless, they should immigrant here legally and we should provide a reasonable path to permanent residence for those contribute...

However I am in to treating everyone with a level of decency and respect.

Now, to say that the new Arizona law only effects illegal aliens is naive to the point of silliness. How many permanent residents and citizens of Hispanic origin will be stopped because the police now have a lower burden to meet to stop someone who "appears" to be an illegal alien than someone who doesn't. In other words, the police can stop Hispanics any time they want and do so under the cover of the new law. There is so much anger out there, will there be vigilantism mistakenly directed against Hispanic American citizens?

Bad economic times, scapegoating a group according to race, a jingoistic "citizens" movement being manipulated by a political party... All very Germany 1935. Maybe it's not a slippery slope, but it's not who we are as a country...
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Old 05-25-2010, 07:20 PM
 
3,951 posts, read 3,582,217 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mlassoff View Post
Or in 1935 Germany, it could have read "Jews scapegoated in swell of Nationalist Pride..."

Does this pattern seem alarmingly familiar with any historical types? Scapegoating a single group (and I would say we're scapegoating MORE than illegals with the prohibitions against Ethnic Studies Classes, removing teachers with accents from the classroom...)...

What's next? Where does this end?

Does anyone else believe that if every illegal immigrant was removed from the country tomorrow, the right wing manufactured anger machines would just find another group to scapegoat?
Um, NO. Jews in Germany weren't breaking any laws and violating the rights, resources and freedoms of others. They were abused and slaughtered, made as second-class people, they didn't do anything to deserve the treatment they got. It's just like Black Americans during the days in which people could get away with mistreating them: they were legal residents here, but still got crapped on. So, no, I completely disagree with this thread and I am offended that someone would even suggest this and I'm not even Jewish. What exactly were Jewish people illegally doing before the German government decided to come in and wreck their lives? They were illegally being Jewish?

The question of this thread should be: when will pro-illegal immigration folks stop trying to use history to justify illegal immigration when it isn't even the same situations?
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Old 05-25-2010, 07:50 PM
 
Location: Chicagoland
4,028 posts, read 6,222,911 times
Reputation: 1305
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
Really? You have some historical reference to that? This is about illegal immigration not legal minorities in this country.
Yes:

Operation ******* is a perfect example of the United States becoming anti-immigration when the economy wasn't the best.

Then there was Reagan giving amnesty to immigrants in the 80s.

If you want more, Google it.
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Old 05-25-2010, 07:58 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,146,155 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by thePR View Post
Yes:

Operation ******* is a perfect example of the United States becoming anti-immigration when the economy wasn't the best.

Then there was Reagan giving amnesty to immigrants in the 80s.

If you want more, Google it.
Operation ******* had nothing to do with the economy being bad. Our armed forces personnel were returning from the war and they needed the jobs. Again, those were not our own minorities. They were citizens of Mexico.

What did Reagan giving amnesty to illegal aliens have to do with the economy?
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Old 05-25-2010, 08:02 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,146,155 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlassoff View Post
Just for the record... I am pro secure strong borders that limit the number of illegal immigrants. I don't have a lot of sympathy for those who come here to cause trouble... I have all the empathy for those who come here to work and find a better life for their family... Regardless, they should immigrant here legally and we should provide a reasonable path to permanent residence for those contribute...

However I am in to treating everyone with a level of decency and respect.

Now, to say that the new Arizona law only effects illegal aliens is naive to the point of silliness. How many permanent residents and citizens of Hispanic origin will be stopped because the police now have a lower burden to meet to stop someone who "appears" to be an illegal alien than someone who doesn't. In other words, the police can stop Hispanics any time they want and do so under the cover of the new law. There is so much anger out there, will there be vigilantism mistakenly directed against Hispanic American citizens?

Bad economic times, scapegoating a group according to race, a jingoistic "citizens" movement being manipulated by a political party... All very Germany 1935. Maybe it's not a slippery slope, but it's not who we are as a country...
Did you not read over and over in here that LE cannot stop anyone based on their looks? Did you not read over and over that once someone is stopped all they have to do is produce valid I.D. and they are on their way? Did you not read over and over that this law prohibits racial profiling?
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Old 05-25-2010, 08:18 PM
 
Location: Chicagoland
4,028 posts, read 6,222,911 times
Reputation: 1305
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
Operation ******* had nothing to do with the economy being bad. Our armed forces personnel were returning from the war and they needed the jobs. Again, those were not our own minorities. They were citizens of Mexico.

What did Reagan giving amnesty to illegal aliens have to do with the economy?


I stated this, you asked, I explained, you didn't like the results so you argue against it. I can't do anything if you aren't willing to accept it, but just because you want 1+1=3 doesn't make it so.
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Old 05-25-2010, 08:38 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,146,155 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by thePR View Post


I stated this, you asked, I explained, you didn't like the results so you argue against it. I can't do anything if you aren't willing to accept it, but just because you want 1+1=3 doesn't make it so.
But what you presented were not facts. Would you like me to post a link describing why Operation ****** occured? It will back up exactly what I said. Reagan granting amnesty which was supposed to be the one and only time had nothing to do with the economy.
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