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Old 05-26-2010, 07:27 AM
 
Location: ...at a 3AM epiphany
2,206 posts, read 2,137,256 times
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Finally some sanity is beginning to return to this Country. Good informative article.

Quote:
Bills to challenge the fact that citizenship is granted as a birthright in this country have been perennial nonstarters in Congress, although the current legislation has 91 co-sponsors. As with other issues surrounding immigration, however, some state legislatures still might act, if only in hopes of bringing this issue before the Supreme Court.
Citizenship-By-Birth Faces Challenges : NPR
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Old 05-26-2010, 08:35 PM
 
Location: Inis Fada
16,685 posts, read 27,887,589 times
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"Currently, if you have a child born to two alien parents, that person is believed to be a U.S. citizen," says Randy Terrill, a Republican state representative in Oklahoma who is working on an anti-birthright bill. "When taken to its logical extreme, that would produce the absurd result that children of invading armies would be considered citizens of the U.S."
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Old 05-26-2010, 08:42 PM
 
3,951 posts, read 3,581,657 times
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That's a good article. I think it is interesting that the supporters of continuing this birth right citizenship say that it is a core of the U.S.'s beliefs, but the problem there is that most of these families that have children born here and are illegal immigrants don't really try to become "American."

Quote:
"It's a core American belief that those who are born here get integrated into our society, no matter where your parents are from," she says. "This would be an erosion of the core principles about who belongs in this country.
They don't "integrate" and nor do they want to be integrated. I just got back from the basketball court and the Mexicans who have stated that they are here illegally are 3/3 in not wanting to play basketball with others, white or black. They say, "We are afraid of getting in trouble." Talk about not integrating. The people who support illegal immigrants need to just accept and realize that we are just their nice opportunity to leave a country where they have no opportunity and take our things.
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Old 05-27-2010, 02:09 AM
 
7,541 posts, read 5,144,884 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OhBeeHave View Post
"Currently, if you have a child born to two alien parents, that person is believed to be a U.S. citizen," says Randy Terrill, a Republican state representative in Oklahoma who is working on an anti-birthright bill. "When taken to its logical extreme, that would produce the absurd result that children of invading armies would be considered citizens of the U.S."
And this goes to show that this Representative has never read the US Constitution or even the 14th Amendment thoroughly and the hundreds of cases that have referenced US vs Wong Kim Ark

Invading Armies (or prisoners of War) and Ambassadors (and/or their family) are not afforded citizenship status, should they give birth or have babies born in the US on US Soil.

that has been the understanding for almost 200 years. For being a Representative, one would think that YOU should have a basic understanding of the damn piece of paper that our Country was built on.
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Old 05-27-2010, 02:18 AM
 
7,541 posts, read 5,144,884 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoEdible View Post
That's a good article. I think it is interesting that the supporters of continuing this birth right citizenship say that it is a core of the U.S.'s beliefs, but the problem there is that most of these families that have children born here and are illegal immigrants don't really try to become "American."
of course you base this claim on what study?

I had several friends who were born to illegal immigrant parents (however they were born on US Soil), and the only reason they didn't become citizens (at the time) was that they couldn't afford to hire attorney's to handle their naturalization cases; one of my friends was born to North Korean Illegal immigrants who were trying to escape from their country because it would have been hell for them to live there. They became naturalized eventually (one set of parents went back home because they couldn't get enough money to go through the naturalization process), but they've always believed in the "American" dream to make money, send their kids to good schools and to do better than they did.


Quote:
They don't "integrate" and nor do they want to be integrated. I just got back from the basketball court and the Mexicans who have stated that they are here illegally are 3/3 in not wanting to play basketball with others, white or black. They say, "We are afraid of getting in trouble." Talk about not integrating. The people who support illegal immigrants need to just accept and realize that we are just their nice opportunity to leave a country where they have no opportunity and take our things.
we make them not want to integrate, by making it VERY difficult for an immigrant to become a naturalized citizen.

next time you show your disdain for them, ask them "what would make it easier for you, to become a citizen legally?"

bet you that most of them will say time and cost; that waiting 5 years to obtian naturalization citizenship status, is a time too long for them handle; and that 3 years must be spent in one place can be quite difficult.

also that green card and work visas are difficult to get and limited.
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Old 05-27-2010, 01:36 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,144,640 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arus View Post
of course you base this claim on what study?

I had several friends who were born to illegal immigrant parents (however they were born on US Soil), and the only reason they didn't become citizens (at the time) was that they couldn't afford to hire attorney's to handle their naturalization cases; one of my friends was born to North Korean Illegal immigrants who were trying to escape from their country because it would have been hell for them to live there. They became naturalized eventually (one set of parents went back home because they couldn't get enough money to go through the naturalization process), but they've always believed in the "American" dream to make money, send their kids to good schools and to do better than they did.




we make them not want to integrate, by making it VERY difficult for an immigrant to become a naturalized citizen.

next time you show your disdain for them, ask them "what would make it easier for you, to become a citizen legally?"

bet you that most of them will say time and cost; that waiting 5 years to obtian naturalization citizenship status, is a time too long for them handle; and that 3 years must be spent in one place can be quite difficult.

also that green card and work visas are difficult to get and limited.
Becoming a citizen and the process of assimilation is a lot more then a piece of paper. I think you are missing the point. It is about adopting our culture, language, our principles and pledging loyalty to this country and its citizens only. That doesn't mean that they can't retain some of their old culture at home but how well they have assimilated or assimilated at all will be evidenced as to how they conduct themselves out in mainstream America.

Last edited by chicagonut; 05-27-2010 at 03:05 PM..
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Old 05-27-2010, 03:02 PM
 
166 posts, read 212,151 times
Reputation: 117
[quote=




we make them not want to integrate, by making it VERY difficult for an immigrant to become a naturalized citizen.

next time you show your disdain for them, ask them "what would make it easier for you, to become a citizen legally?"

bet you that most of them will say time and cost; that waiting 5 years to obtian naturalization citizenship status, is a time too long for them handle; and that 3 years must be spent in one place can be quite difficult.

also that green card and work visas are difficult to get and limited.[/quote]

So, they want to become legal citizens and spend the rest of their lives here, but 5 years is too big an investment? If they're here for life AND doing it legally, what is the rush?
And money? I should think that it would be a worthy expenditure. YES it may be hard to fund it. It's not a cracker-jack prize! This is U.S. citizenship.. it SHOULD come at a premium price. If it's not worth the effort, stay where you are.
I suppose if we set up stations at the borders and collected $10/person and told them they could take the oath in a week it would certainly cut down on illegals, but U.S. citizenship would be totally without value.
If it's worth having, it's worth sacrificing for.
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Old 05-27-2010, 03:37 PM
 
Location: ...at a 3AM epiphany
2,206 posts, read 2,137,256 times
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Arus sounds too familiar to me regarding a previous poster(s).

No matter, if they want to become United States CITIZENS, then they must become UNITED STATES CITIZENS. 5 years and some bucks is a small price to pay. On the other hand, illegal aliens who just want the buck jump the border and establish quickly how to rape the system. Yes, something needs to be done. Secure the borders, throw out those who have lived here illegally (bums) and invite those worthy to fight, like Americans do, for the rights to this Country. Stop the whining. Americans don't whine.
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Old 05-27-2010, 03:46 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,881,481 times
Reputation: 6517
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arus View Post
of course you base this claim on what study?

I had several friends who were born to illegal immigrant parents (however they were born on US Soil), and the only reason they didn't become citizens (at the time) was that they couldn't afford to hire attorney's to handle their naturalization cases; one of my friends was born to North Korean Illegal immigrants who were trying to escape from their country because it would have been hell for them to live there. They became naturalized eventually (one set of parents went back home because they couldn't get enough money to go through the naturalization process), but they've always believed in the "American" dream to make money, send their kids to good schools and to do better than they did.




we make them not want to integrate, by making it VERY difficult for an immigrant to become a naturalized citizen.

next time you show your disdain for them, ask them "what would make it easier for you, to become a citizen legally?"

bet you that most of them will say time and cost; that waiting 5 years to obtain naturalization citizenship status, is a time too long for them handle; and that 3 years must be spent in one place can be quite difficult.

also that green card and work visas are difficult to get and limited.
I wasn't aware that a Nation should base its immigration and or citizenship requirments based on ease to gain.
You see I think a nation has a responsibility to itself to make sure they only take those that will become an asset to that nation.
I think an excellent test of character in this case is if the individual immigrant obeys the laws before entering. Did they even bother to apply first?
If they answer is a no to either question, then no further questions need be asked in regards to the individuals honesty or integrity.
These folks you defend seem to lack the basic honest or courtesy of knocking on your door and waiting to be invited in before entering.
In regards to birth right citizenship I think it is clear that it was never intended to include anyone whose parents were in the country illegally.
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Old 05-27-2010, 04:13 PM
 
Location: central Oregon
1,856 posts, read 2,025,067 times
Reputation: 2377
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arus View Post
of course you base this claim on what study?

I had several friends who were born to illegal immigrant parents (however they were born on US Soil), and the only reason they didn't become citizens (at the time) was that they couldn't afford to hire attorney's to handle their naturalization cases; one of my friends was born to North Korean Illegal immigrants who were trying to escape from their country because it would have been hell for them to live there. They became naturalized eventually (one set of parents went back home because they couldn't get enough money to go through the naturalization process), but they've always believed in the "American" dream to make money, send their kids to good schools and to do better than they did.

we make them not want to integrate, by making it VERY difficult for an immigrant to become a naturalized citizen.

next time you show your disdain for them, ask them "what would make it easier for you, to become a citizen legally?"

bet you that most of them will say time and cost; that waiting 5 years to obtian naturalization citizenship status, is a time too long for them handle; and that 3 years must be spent in one place can be quite difficult.

also that green card and work visas are difficult to get and limited.

Time and cost obviously factor into their reasons. The biggest obstacle for most illegals is their poverty and lack of education. They KNOW if they apply legally they WILL BE rejected. The United States does not need to legally allow poor, uneducated beings into our country... we have enough of our own to spare.
It's because of this major reason they just come illegally. The 5 years, or 3 years is nothing. Mostly an excuse to try to justify the criminal act of coming illegally or overstaying a Visa.
It should be very difficult to get into the United States. Instead, our government seems quite happy to leave us wide open for whatever riff-raff in the world that wants to stroll on in.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
I wasn't aware that a Nation should base its immigration and or citizenship requirments based on ease to gain.
You see I think a nation has a responsibility to itself to make sure they only take those that will become an asset to that nation.
I think an excellent test of character in this case is if the individual immigrant obeys the laws before entering. Did they even bother to apply first?
If they answer is a no to either question, then no further questions need be asked in regards to the individuals honesty or integrity.
These folks you defend seem to lack the basic honest or courtesy of knocking on your door and waiting to be invited in before entering.
In regards to birth right citizenship I think it is clear that it was never intended to include anyone whose parents were in the country illegally.
Of course they never bother to apply to come here legally. What ARE you thinking?
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