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Old 06-09-2010, 01:30 AM
 
14,017 posts, read 22,039,194 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
What you don't get is that it is totally irrelevant that Calif. has historical Spanish influence when it comes to citizens of Mexican/latino ancestry being pro-advocates for illegal aliens. They should be Americans first and respect our immigration laws but their ethnic ties to the illegal aliens trumps that and therefore they are ethnocentrics. Ethnocentricism has no place in this world because it is racist when one puts that above the laws of their countries.

The only reason that Latinos are fast becoming a minority majority (and not just in Calif.) is directly due to illegal immigration. It isn't a natural demographic change. Funny, if millions of illegal Chinese were to invade Mexico I am sure the Mexicans would object to that unnatural demographic change and the changes in their culture and language that would occur.

I have no problem with anyone practicing their native culture and langauge at home but Latinos take it way beyond that, especially the illegal kind.

The reason ethnic studies was banned in Arizona is to be more inclusive of everyone rather than singling out an ethnic group for special studies. The less we think about our ethnicity or anestoral ties in the classroom and out in public the more we will think of ourselves as just Americans instead.
But why can't we think of ourselves as so-and-so Americans? There are plenty of people that aren't divisive and have an "all-for-one" American attitude, that do not exclude sharing there heritage with others in there day-to-day lives. I just don't see the harm in it. I think we should study the MAIN ethnic groups that shaped this country into what it is, weather it excludes others that weren't as influential, or not. That's just me.
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Old 06-09-2010, 08:24 AM
 
364 posts, read 185,226 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by polo89 View Post
As do whites, blacks, Asians etc. I mean, LATINOS were at one time the MAJORITY population of the Southwestern US, before Anglos came. Why do people ignore the pre-Anglo history of the West? I mean look at the place names in California: Los Angeles, Sacramento, San Fransisco, San Jose, San Bernardino, San Diego, Costa Mesa, La Jolla, Laguna: Hills, Beach, Woods, etc, etc, etc. And some people like to use the old joke that CA is basically Northern Mexico, well in all honesty, at one time it LITERALLY was Norther Mexico, hence the reason why the part of Mexico South of California is called BAJA California(lower California), California, Texas, Arizona, Nevada and New MEXICO, as we know now, were all at one point and time NORTHERN Mexico. Not to mention all the Spanish/Style houses people live in, in CA. So if a Mexican in CA is being ethnocentric, well he's just acting like a TRUE Native Californian, because Mexico/Spain/Native Americas, are the TRUE history of California.
latinos were the majority
from 1820 to 1846
i doubt it
indians like tha apache navajo an so on maybe

many places in tha usa have spanish names
an no hispanic ppl when tha places startd up
monterey va
my friend live there
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Old 06-09-2010, 09:43 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,182,536 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by polo89 View Post
But why can't we think of ourselves as so-and-so Americans? There are plenty of people that aren't divisive and have an "all-for-one" American attitude, that do not exclude sharing there heritage with others in there day-to-day lives. I just don't see the harm in it. I think we should study the MAIN ethnic groups that shaped this country into what it is, weather it excludes others that weren't as influential, or not. That's just me.
We can be aware that our ancestors came from somewhere else and even practice some of that culture is we so choose but what I am talking about is a mindset that were are first and foremost Americans and that we will defend this country and its citizens rather than the citizens of the country that our ancestors came from. What is so hard about understanding that? In the case of far too many Hispanic citizens they are what they are ethnically first and are defending illegal aliens from their ancestor's country rather than being American first.

As for ethnic studies as an individual academic class there is no reason for that. History and the contributions that all individuals and groups have made to the U.S. can be acknowledged generally without zeroing in on a certain ethnic group which is what ethnic studies does.
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Old 06-09-2010, 11:40 AM
 
25,060 posts, read 22,232,223 times
Reputation: 11578
Quote:
Originally Posted by polo89 View Post
As do whites, blacks, Asians etc. I mean, LATINOS were at one time the MAJORITY population of the Southwestern US, before Anglos came. Why do people ignore the pre-Anglo history of the West? I mean look at the place names in California: Los Angeles, Sacramento, San Fransisco, San Jose, San Bernardino, San Diego, Costa Mesa, La Jolla, Laguna: Hills, Beach, Woods, etc, etc, etc. And some people like to use the old joke that CA is basically Northern Mexico, well in all honesty, at one time it LITERALLY was Norther Mexico, hence the reason why the part of Mexico South of California is called BAJA California(lower California), California, Texas, Arizona, Nevada and New MEXICO, as we know now, were all at one point and time NORTHERN Mexico. Not to mention all the Spanish/Style houses people live in, in CA. So if a Mexican in CA is being ethnocentric, well he's just acting like a TRUE Native Californian, because Mexico/Spain/Native Americas, are the TRUE history of California.
With that rationale, we should let the Russians come and move to Alaska en masse then, since Alaska was part of Russia at one point
You don't get it, we PURCHASED the land that was once nothern Mexico from Mexico, after DEFEATING THEM MILITARILY. We didn't just take their land that we conquered, we even paid for it. So this is OUR land, NOT the Mexicans'!
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Old 06-09-2010, 12:13 PM
 
28 posts, read 26,914 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceman82 View Post
I am disgusted beyond words at this entire subject.. will you be happy when California is like TJ?? the integrity of this great county is being compromised every day by these invaders, and yet nothing is done. Do you remember my post on how worthless fourth generation Hispanics are? do I need to remind you?? I say we give up, have another white flight and leave this state for the illegal immigrants and their supporters. California would be third world in need of a bailout within 2-5 years.

All this so true and then some. the facts are not just white flight but anyone that cares for clean safe living is leaving in the droves.
I give it two years and it will be gone the rest of the way with only the rich elite left, that so love the illegal laborers.
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Old 06-09-2010, 06:55 PM
 
Location: San Diego North County
4,800 posts, read 7,706,077 times
Reputation: 3010
Quote:
Originally Posted by polo89 View Post
As do whites, blacks, Asians etc. I mean, LATINOS were at one time the MAJORITY population of the Southwestern US, before Anglos came. Why do people ignore the pre-Anglo history of the West? I mean look at the place names in California: Los Angeles, Sacramento, San Fransisco, San Jose, San Bernardino, San Diego, Costa Mesa, La Jolla, Laguna: Hills, Beach, Woods, etc, etc, etc. And some people like to use the old joke that CA is basically Northern Mexico, well in all honesty, at one time it LITERALLY was Norther Mexico, hence the reason why the part of Mexico South of California is called BAJA California(lower California), California, Texas, Arizona, Nevada and New MEXICO, as we know now, were all at one point and time NORTHERN Mexico. Not to mention all the Spanish/Style houses people live in, in CA. So if a Mexican in CA is being ethnocentric, well he's just acting like a TRUE Native Californian, because Mexico/Spain/Native Americas, are the TRUE history of California.
Oh my GAWD--do you people ever freaking pick up a history book?

Modern day Mexico was a colony of Spain until 1821. Mexico lost the Mexican-American war in 1848. Twenty seven years. For twenty seven years, Mexico, as an independent country held Southern California, New Mexico, Arizona, and Texas.

Mexico lost that land due to war. Human beings have waged war against one another practically since Homo sapien sapien stepped out of Africa. The conquest and the conquering of others has been a human way of accumulating resources for thousands upon thousands of years. Most of the conquered are not paid for land which is taken in battle, but Mexico was--to the tune of $15 million dollars--which in today's dollars would be a hefty sum.

For example, Russia was paid $7.2 million dollars for Alaska--in 2007 dollars, that sum amounted to $100 million dollars. That's a tidy sum. Perhaps if Mexico's government wasn't propelled by the mordita, they could have done something beneficial for the country itself at that time. Who knows what was done with it.....

I also have to take issue with your lumping of Spain, Mexico, and Native Americans together. The atrocities and genocide inflicted upon the Native inhabitants of the present day southwestern United States by the Spanish conquistadors and the "Black Robes" who followed them is infamous. Mexico doesn't get a pass either. They continued Spain's heinous treatment of the Pueblo Indians until they were finally forced out of the southwest by advancing U.S. troops.

Mexicans and Native Americans didn't all sit around a campfire singing Kumbayah once the Spanish left. There would have never been an Alamo had the Mexican government not promised the Americans/Texans land and riches in return for the extermination of the Apache.

These people crossing our southern border illegally have NO claim upon the United States. That land was paid for in American blood and American money.

Stop making excuses for criminals. I suppose you'd like to give Louisiana back to the French, Manhattan back to the Dutch, and Northern California and Alaska back to the Russians as well....or is it only the fallacious claims of those from the other side of our southern border you intend to further?
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Old 06-09-2010, 07:33 PM
 
364 posts, read 185,226 times
Reputation: 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kele View Post
Oh my GAWD--do you people ever freaking pick up a history book?

Modern day Mexico was a colony of Spain until 1821. Mexico lost the Mexican-American war in 1848. Twenty seven years. For twenty seven years, Mexico, as an independent country held Southern California, New Mexico, Arizona, and Texas.

Mexico lost that land due to war. Human beings have waged war against one another practically since Homo sapien sapien stepped out of Africa. The conquest and the conquering of others has been a human way of accumulating resources for thousands upon thousands of years. Most of the conquered are not paid for land which is taken in battle, but Mexico was--to the tune of $15 million dollars--which in today's dollars would be a hefty sum.

For example, Russia was paid $7.2 million dollars for Alaska--in 2007 dollars, that sum amounted to $100 million dollars. That's a tidy sum. Perhaps if Mexico's government wasn't propelled by the mordita, they could have done something beneficial for the country itself at that time. Who knows what was done with it.....

I also have to take issue with your lumping of Spain, Mexico, and Native Americans together. The atrocities and genocide inflicted upon the Native inhabitants of the present day southwestern United States by the Spanish conquistadors and the "Black Robes" who followed them is infamous. Mexico doesn't get a pass either. They continued Spain's heinous treatment of the Pueblo Indians until they were finally forced out of the southwest by advancing U.S. troops.

Mexicans and Native Americans didn't all sit around a campfire singing Kumbayah once the Spanish left. There would have never been an Alamo had the Mexican government not promised the Americans/Texans land and riches in return for the extermination of the Apache.

These people crossing our southern border illegally have NO claim upon the United States. That land was paid for in American blood and American money.

Stop making excuses for criminals. I suppose you'd like to give Louisiana back to the French, Manhattan back to the Dutch, and Northern California and Alaska back to the Russians as well....or is it only the fallacious claims of those from the other side of our southern border you intend to further?
yup
some ppl dont know there histery
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Old 06-10-2010, 12:51 AM
 
14,017 posts, read 22,039,194 times
Reputation: 4087
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kele View Post
Oh my GAWD--do you people ever freaking pick up a history book?

Modern day Mexico was a colony of Spain until 1821. Mexico lost the Mexican-American war in 1848. Twenty seven years. For twenty seven years, Mexico, as an independent country held Southern California, New Mexico, Arizona, and Texas.

Mexico lost that land due to war. Human beings have waged war against one another practically since Homo sapien sapien stepped out of Africa. The conquest and the conquering of others has been a human way of accumulating resources for thousands upon thousands of years. Most of the conquered are not paid for land which is taken in battle, but Mexico was--to the tune of $15 million dollars--which in today's dollars would be a hefty sum.

For example, Russia was paid $7.2 million dollars for Alaska--in 2007 dollars, that sum amounted to $100 million dollars. That's a tidy sum. Perhaps if Mexico's government wasn't propelled by the mordita, they could have done something beneficial for the country itself at that time. Who knows what was done with it.....

I also have to take issue with your lumping of Spain, Mexico, and Native Americans together. The atrocities and genocide inflicted upon the Native inhabitants of the present day southwestern United States by the Spanish conquistadors and the "Black Robes" who followed them is infamous. Mexico doesn't get a pass either. They continued Spain's heinous treatment of the Pueblo Indians until they were finally forced out of the southwest by advancing U.S. troops.

Mexicans and Native Americans didn't all sit around a campfire singing Kumbayah once the Spanish left. There would have never been an Alamo had the Mexican government not promised the Americans/Texans land and riches in return for the extermination of the Apache.

These people crossing our southern border illegally have NO claim upon the United States. That land was paid for in American blood and American money.

Stop making excuses for criminals. I suppose you'd like to give Louisiana back to the French, Manhattan back to the Dutch, and Northern California and Alaska back to the Russians as well....or is it only the fallacious claims of those from the other side of our southern border you intend to further?
Calm down son. I never EXCUSED illegal immigration, I never said the Natives and the Spaniards got along, all I said is that, present day Mexican-Americans are descendants of BOTH Spaniards and Native blood, making them Mestizo. I know the history of Texas, it was stolen land. The settlers form the eastern US American South, came to Texas and complained of the Mexican governments way of doing things, they hated the fact that they had to convert to Catholicism, so they took conflict with that, and other things, and so on and so forth.
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Old 06-10-2010, 12:55 AM
 
14,017 posts, read 22,039,194 times
Reputation: 4087
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Originally Posted by RobertJackson1980 View Post
yup
some ppl dont know there histery
I know my history. Do you?
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Old 06-10-2010, 12:59 AM
 
358 posts, read 333,603 times
Reputation: 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by polo89 View Post
Calm down son. I never EXCUSED illegal immigration, I never said the Natives and the Spaniards got along, all I said is that, present day Mexican-Americans are descendants of BOTH Spaniards and Native blood, making them Mestizo. I know the history of Texas, it was stolen land. The settlers form the eastern US American South, came to Texas and complained of the Mexican governments way of doing things, they hated the fact that they had to convert to Catholicism, so they took conflict with that, and other things, and so on and so forth.
Last time I checked Texas won that land through military conflict, without the help of the United States. Who did the Spaniards steal that land from? You see.. no matter what way you slice it it's not Mexico, and never will be. If you really did know history, you would know the Texas situation was over the abolition of the 1824 constitution of Mexico, you should read up on it. But you are trying to validate the feelings of La Raza and MEChA indirectly excusing illegal immigration. Here is more on the 1824 constitution : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_1824
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