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Old 06-03-2010, 02:24 PM
 
Location: Pacific Northwest
295 posts, read 158,745 times
Reputation: 474

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They already are !
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
Not only that but we will have the ethnocentric, racist Hispanics in charge politically.

 
Old 06-03-2010, 03:48 PM
 
Location: Littleton, CO
20,894 posts, read 13,112,272 times
Reputation: 3947
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
Yeah, that makes sense. He would deny children born from "aliens" instant citizenship but that didn't mean children born from illegal aliens. Makes perfect sense if you have no common sense or logic.
Since he did not deny children born from aliens instant citizenship, your conundrum is neatly resolved.
 
Old 06-03-2010, 04:32 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,146,155 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by HistorianDude View Post
Since he did not deny children born from aliens instant citizenship, your conundrum is neatly resolved.
Really? During the original debate over the amendment Senator Jacob M. Howard of Michigan—the author of the Citizenship Clause—described the clause as excluding American Indians who maintain their tribal ties, and "persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers." He was supported by other senators, including Edgar Cowan, Reverdy Johnson, and Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Lyman Trumbull.[
 
Old 06-03-2010, 05:03 PM
 
Location: Littleton, CO
20,894 posts, read 13,112,272 times
Reputation: 3947
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
Really? During the original debate over the amendment Senator Jacob M. Howard of Michigan—the author of the Citizenship Clause—described the clause as excluding American Indians who maintain their tribal ties, and "persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers." He was supported by other senators, including Edgar Cowan, Reverdy Johnson, and Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Lyman Trumbull.[
It astounds me that you keep posting this same quotation and make no effort to understand it.

1. It never mentions either "children of" foreigners, or "children of" aliens.

2. It mentions children who are themselves "foreigners" and "aliens."

3. It then defines them as belonging "to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers."

There is no other interpretation of the statement that makes sense in context.

None.
 
Old 06-03-2010, 05:12 PM
 
Location: SouthCentral Texas
3,855 posts, read 4,085,289 times
Reputation: 957
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
It certainly should since the writer of the 14th was clear that birthright citizenship was not intended for children of illegal aliens.
If the "writer" meant that, then that language should have been added to the amendment. Since he clearly left it out,[or the legislators left it out] then the court has allowed the wording now to be the law of the land. It no longer maters what the writer of the amendment intended, it maters what the wording the states voted on. The current language is all that maters now.

You cant go back and do over...
 
Old 06-03-2010, 05:31 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,146,155 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by HistorianDude View Post
It astounds me that you keep posting this same quotation and make no effort to understand it.

1. It never mentions either "children of" foreigners, or "children of" aliens.

2. It mentions children who are themselves "foreigners" and "aliens."

3. It then defines them as belonging "to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers."

There is no other interpretation of the statement that makes sense in context.

None.
What part of this don't you get?

"excluding American Indians who maintain their tribal ties, and "persons BORN in the United States who are FOREIGNERS, ALIENS, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers."

How could he be talking about children as if they are the parents? Children don't give birth!
 
Old 06-03-2010, 07:46 PM
 
364 posts, read 184,317 times
Reputation: 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1751texan View Post
If the "writer" meant that, then that language should have been added to the amendment. Since he clearly left it out,[or the legislators left it out] then the court has allowed the wording now to be the law of the land. It no longer maters what the writer of the amendment intended, it maters what the wording the states voted on. The current language is all that maters now.

You cant go back and do over...
wrong
laws can be changd
jim crow died
anchor baby law
wil die to
 
Old 06-03-2010, 11:56 PM
 
Location: central Oregon
1,856 posts, read 2,025,508 times
Reputation: 2377
Quote:
Originally Posted by HistorianDude View Post
It astounds me that you keep posting this same quotation and make no effort to understand it.

1. It never mentions either "children of" foreigners, or "children of" aliens.

2. It mentions children who are themselves "foreigners" and "aliens."

3. It then defines them as belonging "to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers."

There is no other interpretation of the statement that makes sense in context.

None.
Again, you are missing the most vital point of the whole quote: PERSONS BORN IN THE UNITED STATES...
It works like this...
woman gets pregnant
THEN woman gives BIRTH to a brand-new baby in THIS country (this BABY is the PERSON BORN IN THE UNITED STATES to (whomever)
If mother and father are foreigners OR aliens OR families of ambassadors or foreign ministers then ANY babies born to them are NOT to be given citizenship.
THAT is what it really says.
 
Old 06-04-2010, 07:30 AM
 
Location: Littleton, CO
20,894 posts, read 13,112,272 times
Reputation: 3947
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
What part of this don't you get?

"excluding American Indians who maintain their tribal ties, and "persons BORN in the United States who are FOREIGNERS, ALIENS, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers."
I get it completely.

Foreigners = aliens = who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers.

It's been explained to you several times now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut
How could he be talking about children as if they are the parents? Children don't give birth!
He is not "talking about children as if they are the parents." I keep pointing that out to you.

The only parents he mentions are "ambassadors or foreign ministers."

And their children are the foreigners/aliens he mentions previously.

After all... under the 14th Amendment, children of aliens (born here) are citizens, not aliens themselves. So he can't be talking about them when he says "foreigners, aliens."

There is no other interpretation of the sentence that makes sense in context.

None.

Last edited by HistorianDude; 06-04-2010 at 07:40 AM..
 
Old 06-04-2010, 07:37 AM
 
Location: Littleton, CO
20,894 posts, read 13,112,272 times
Reputation: 3947
Quote:
Originally Posted by tulani View Post
Again, you are missing the most vital point of the whole quote: PERSONS BORN IN THE UNITED STATES...
Apparently the only part I am missing is the fake part you keep trying to insert.

For that I have a very good excuse. It's fake.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tulani
If mother and father are foreigners OR aliens OR families of ambassadors or foreign ministers then ANY babies born to them are NOT to be given citizenship.
The parts of your paraphrase that I highlighted in red are lies. There are no "ors" in the statement, there are only commas. This means that these are not three different things. They are the same thing, three different synonyms offered.

The entire purpose of the statement is to define who is excluded by the qualification "subject to the jurisdiction of." And he is offering a single class of person.

THAT is what it really says.

If it meant what you claim it does, you would have no need to keep making fraudulent insertions into the statement.
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