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Am I the only one that feels this way? Or are you fed up with this too?
Yes, I'm in the same boat.
I've lived downstate my entire life, and with college ending soon, I'm going to be leaving the state. The adverse effects on the economy of having such an irresponsible government is forcing me to greener pastures.
I never thought in a million years that "having a functioning state/local government" would be high on my priorities when finding a place to live, but Illinois' terrible management has made that a personal issue.
Not all areas in Illinois are as depressed as say Decatur or East St. Louis, for instance. . The COL is very similar state to state. No state government is perfect. The state has a lot of responsibilities starting with 5 universities and schools in 102 counties. In todays economy if you don't have a masters or doctorate in a specialized field, you'll be unemployed too, or working for a minimum wage.
A standard of living is only to the extent of what your income can provide. Not all of Illinois is highy taxed like Chicago and not everyone has to drive 100 miles to shop.
I lived in some of those states where it seemed like I had a higher standard of living. It was an illusion that disppeared before my eyes when we weres faced with critcal care. It was not where we lived, so I drove 150 miles to Tulsa and 150 miles home everyday for two weeks because the gas and wear and tear on the vehicle was cheaper than motels and food. I had the same problem in Missiouri, so when we wanted a second opinion we drove the 1000 miles to Illinois and back. The doctor was furious because I went outside of his network hospital. There was no reason for surgery because what the local doctor "found" and claimed was cancer was nothing. The same doctor didn't have the sense to culrure a continuing wound. Neither did the hospital or four other doctors in the same town. It was MRSA. .
The end stage of life is why I moved back to Illinois despite the economy and taxes. The gamble paid off in more ways than one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by debbie at bouontiful
I for one love IL. but you have it wrong. We lived a much and I mean much higher standard in another state. When I lived in ILL twice we did not have all the above. I lived in the Northwest corner and drove 2 hours to Rockford for all that stuff. None the less I did and do love the area just can't seen spending many thousands for property taxes.
We were tired of the sprawling mess suburban Chicago had become. We were tired of the ridiculous property taxes, sales taxes and the income tax. I'm a finance professional, and my wife was graduating from Pharmacy school, so we were going to be making decent coin.
3 years ago we decided to move to suburban Nashville, Tennessee and completed our relocation in March of 2008. We save at $10-15k per year in taxes with no degradation to income. We both sort of knew a day of reckoning was coming to Illinois.
linicx's list is LOL ridiculous. I grew up in Robinson, IL, 45 minutes from the nearest interstate, let alone the nearest Kosher approved food outlet. Nashville (for us) has all sort of redeeming qualities. The fact that there is no IKEA is fine by us.
Finding beef that is not corn fed is a plus for me. (This is another discussion, but cows aren't built to eat corn. Try reading this. Amazon.com: The Omnivore's Dilemma: A Natural History of Four Meals (9781594200823): Michael Pollan: Books (http://tinyurl.com/yk6ljl - broken link))
Vanderbilt Children's Hospital is just fine for us.
Golfing 18 holes at really nice courses costs me 1/2 as much as it did in suburban Chicago.
We've got a Christian church on just about every corner, and usually there's another one in between the ones on the corner.
For us, the grass is immensely greener in Franklin, TN than it was in Illinois.
So you wanna pack up and move? You don't want to live in Chicago or Illinois because of ___________ (fill in the blank). There is no greener grass or rainbow and pot of gold anywhere you go. Been to that place so here is something to consider.
Car and home nsurance, medicine and office calls to doctors, gasoline, home utilies, restaurants and entertainment and COL is about the same as Illinois. So are home repairs, new appliances and cost of homes.
Except IL grocery tax is 1% vs 9=12% in other states.
Except income tax is a flat 3% but much highter elsewhere
Except low real estate taxes = poor medical care, ill-equioted and understaffed fire and plice departments. lower quality hospital care and health departments, lardlords that have no regulations and restaurants that have poor sanitation and few if any inspections.
Except if you are in Illinois you are accustomed to buying pretty good beef in the grocers. Be prepared to eat grass fed F4 and dairy cattle. Corn fed Angus beef is nearly impossible to find.
Except there is no Trader Joe's, Whole Foods, Ikea or Cosco stores.
Except the nearly airport is 100 miles and so is the nearest unscale shopping
Except you might drive 100 miles to the theater and 50 miles to a grocerty store that doesn't have Wallyworld over the door.
Except it will be hard to find a meat market, fish market or much cuisine except Mexical, Asian and American. Fast Food is king.
Except it is hard to find a well written newspaper
Except in some of these states the oood ol'boys can teach the Chicago Machine a few new tricks.
Except you need a 4x4 to get out of your driveway
Except the nearest children's hospital is 150 miles.
Except the teachers are not paid well and education suffers.
Excep the nearest "real" town where you can rent a movie might be 25 miles because these states are not heavily populated and towns are isolated and far apart.
Except the local 911 may not be local and the next ambulance service on the list may be located 25 miles from you.
Except it costs $75 for one round at a 9=hole course. Your 18 hoes is 50-100 miles.
Excep if you are Jewish you might drive 150miles for Kosher.
Except if you have a special needs child you might drive 200 miles to the nearest clinic.
Except even if you are a mainstream Chrisitian you may find your church is a 25 mile drive.
Except Seniors have few services if any.
Except if you like Christmas lights you might miss that place you call "home".
Except you might trade gray skies and snow for tornadoes you wish you never saw, or 24" of snow that doesn't get cleared for 10 days because the street department is understaffed and the plows are old, and you miss a week or work. .
Except you might find what you pay in rend now doesn't get you nearly as much as you have now.
Except you are liberal or gay or black and most of the areas are super conservative with antebelum, cross burnin' leaning anti-gay white bread towns that don't much like strangers and neither do their kids.
Except you might wait for the appliance guy for a week - if he ever shows up. .
How would you feel if you took your kid to the hospital for tests and he came home iwht MRSA?
Except maybe the new state you move to has little or no Homeland Security because it is a poor state? (IL is #1)
Been there doen that which is why I moved back to Illinois. Be careful of what you ask for. You might find it in your own state.
There is no utopia, but to make a blanket statement (or several in your case) about every area in the rest of the country not being able to get well written paper or children's hospital within 150 miles is just a gross overstatement. It sounds to me like wherever you ended up was out in the boonies if you really had to drive that far just to rent a movie. You can't intelligently compare rural boofoo ______ (wherever state it is you moved from) to urban/suburban Chicago. If you're going to make a fair comparison, at least compare Chicago to other urban areas and the Chicago suburbs to other suburban areas around the country. I have, and pretty much nothing on your 'list' holds true when you compare apples to apples.
The majority of the rest of the country has lower property and sales taxes (some have higher income taxes, some have lower or no income taxes). We have the highest sales tax, gas tax, and some of the highest property taxes in the country. If you feel the extent of those taxes are justified for the services you receive as a resident of Illinois, then great! I'm glad you are happy here. However, not everyone wants to live in such a politically corrupt state, or deal with the excessive tax burden, or the congestion of living in/near one of the largest cities in the country, or the pollution from all the coal plants, or the weather.
I think it's prudent for anyone considering an out of state move to investigate all of the items in your list (taxes, COL, utilities, insurance costs, schools, proximity to local services and entertainment, politics, weather, culture, job market, etc) and weigh the pro's and con's for themselves. Everyone's idea of utopia is different. It doesn't sound like you did your homework very thoroughly if you were that disappointed that you moved back to Illinois, but I'm glad you're happy here now. For me, I know that when we do move, it will be a well researched and thought out move. I want to be prepared for all contingencies and educate myself as much as possible on every last detail down to who my internet service provider will be. I want to know ahead of time what I will possibly be compromising on so that I won't ultimately be disappointed. I will not miss Illinois, but to each his/her own.
First of all let's not turn this into a personal attack. If you don't agree, fine, say sio but leave off the cutesy discriptive phrases and we'll go to it.
Secondly this is the Illinois forum, not the Chicago forum.
Third, and more importantly I lived it. I lived in different states. I paid real estates taxes, utilities and availed myself of medical services. I compared nothing to Chicago; that's just plain folly. Chicago is the biggest conventient store in the Midewest. If you can't eat it. buy it, find it or order it in Chicago you can have it. This is not about Chicago.
Fourth, visiting a town doesn't tell the visitor a thing that it is important to their well being. It says nothing about health standards. It says nothing about a church run state - and I don't mean Utah, and it says nothing about the quality of medical care or the school system that is more interested in new football uniforms than it is in education. But.a person can learn a lot about a town by reading the yellow pages in the local phone book and shopping at the local grocery store.
Fifth, if the reader wants real convenience they will have to move to a city of at least 250,000 population and that is no guarantee. .
And btw if you've never eaten grass fed F4 dairy cattle .. well, it is an indescribable experience. Let me tell you a story.
I was in another state forum one day when I read a post from a lady looking for Koster meat for a holiday meal. They retired. Her husband loved to fish and they bought a house on a high priced fishin' hole without ever picking up a phone book. Depite the fact they lived near city of 400.000 and despite the fact there was a nice small synagogue, in the city, I knew the answer before I goodled any towns. The three nearest cities where she could buy Kosher were KC, St. Louis and possibly Little Rock. It was 200-250 miles to each city from her location. .
The reason I knew there was no Kosher in her City was I happened to stop at the only store that ever sold Kosher in the town to find it was bought by Albertson's out of New Mexico. They replaced all the Kosher products with Mexiican products. They went out of business and Kosher was never stocked againr in that town.
And yes, it is very difficult to find a well written local paper because most of their writers don't understand grammar rules and there is no editer. If you want to read a well written paper you buy a national paper.
Coal fired plants were replaced by chicken procesing plants. A chicken rendering facility can stink up a town for miles in any direction. Of course these areas are not as congested as Chicago. My little city lot was 90 x 200. My Illinois city lot is 100x100. I lost one-fourth acre but gained location and 75% reduction in real estate taxes by moving back to Illinois. IL grocery tax is 1% where I live. It was 10% where I lived before I moved back. The initial doctors office call was $175 just like it is where I live now. Gasoline was $.03 different per gallon. Cigarettes are cheaper but Internet, cable, telephone and generally it isn't as good as what I have now. l left 512Kbps down from the cable company and gained 7Mbps down here. If you don't live in a City like Chicago or DC*you wo't see 50 or 100Mbps down. I moved from a town 10 times larger than where I live now that had a 20M annual budget and a 1M golf course. They thought they had everything, but I moved to a town that I know does; It always did.
One of the things that Illinois has that is outstanding senior services and services for children whohave a chronic illness.
What you need at age 30 is not the same as what you need when you are 70.
Quote:
Originally Posted by whatyousay
There is no utopia, but to make a blanket statement (or several in your case) about every area in the rest of the country not being able to get well written paper or children's hospital within 150 miles is just a gross overstatement. It sounds to me like wherever you ended up was out in the boonies if you really had to drive that far just to rent a movie. You can't intelligently compare rural boofoo ______ (wherever state it is you moved from) to urban/suburban Chicago. If you're going to make a fair comparison, at least compare Chicago to other urban areas and the Chicago suburbs to other suburban areas around the country. I have, and pretty much nothing on your 'list' holds true when you compare apples to apples.
The majority of the rest of the country has lower property and sales taxes (some have higher income taxes, some have lower or no income taxes). We have the highest sales tax, gas tax, and some of the highest property taxes in the country. If you feel the extent of those taxes are justified for the services you receive as a resident of Illinois, then great! I'm glad you are happy here. However, not everyone wants to live in such a politically corrupt state, or deal with the excessive tax burden, or the congestion of living in/near one of the largest cities in the country, or the pollution from all the coal plants, or the weather.
I think it's prudent for anyone considering an out of state move to investigate all of the items in your list (taxes, COL, utilities, insurance costs, schools, proximity to local services and entertainment, politics, weather, culture, job market, etc) and weigh the pro's and con's for themselves. Everyone's idea of utopia is different. It doesn't sound like you did your homework very thoroughly if you were that disappointed that you moved back to Illinois, but I'm glad you're happy here now. For me, I know that when we do move, it will be a well researched and thought out move. I want to be prepared for all contingencies and educate myself as much as possible on every last detail down to who my internet service provider will be. I want to know ahead of time what I will possibly be compromising on so that I won't ultimately be disappointed. I will not miss Illinois, but to each his/her own.
I truthfully thought about moving to Texas in 2005, which is when I turned 18.
I should have made that decision, because I would have been living much better than I am right now.
After I receive my bachelor's degree, I'm definitely going to find a way to leave state within a year's time. There is little to no reason to stay in this state. The way minimum wage works here creates larger class division. The Illinois government has consistently been against the people rather than for it: You are guilty until proven innocent.
It's a corrupt state. And yes, there are a lot of corrupt states.
But at least they have better economies.
And good thing I'm not 30 or 70 yet. I have enough time to collect money and make sure I'm not foolish enough to make Illinois my retirement destination.
First of all let's not turn this into a personal attack. If you don't agree, fine, say sio but leave off the cutesy discriptive phrases and we'll go to it.
Secondly this is the Illinois forum, not the Chicago forum.
Third, and more importantly I lived it. I lived in different states. I paid real estates taxes, utilities and availed myself of medical services. I compared nothing to Chicago; that's just plain folly. Chicago is the biggest conventient store in the Midewest. If you can't eat it. buy it, find it or order it in Chicago you can have it. This is not about Chicago.
Fourth, visiting a town doesn't tell the visitor a thing that it is important to their well being. It says nothing about health standards. It says nothing about a church run state - and I don't mean Utah, and it says nothing about the quality of medical care or the school system that is more interested in new football uniforms than it is in education. But.a person can learn a lot about a town by reading the yellow pages in the local phone book and shopping at the local grocery store.
Fifth, if the reader wants real convenience they will have to move to a city of at least 250,000 population and that is no guarantee. .
And btw if you've never eaten grass fed F4 dairy cattle .. well, it is an indescribable experience. Let me tell you a story.
I was in another state forum one day when I read a post from a lady looking for Koster meat for a holiday meal. They retired. Her husband loved to fish and they bought a house on a high priced fishin' hole without ever picking up a phone book. Depite the fact they lived near city of 400.000 and despite the fact there was a nice small synagogue, in the city, I knew the answer before I goodled any towns. The three nearest cities where she could buy Kosher were KC, St. Louis and possibly Little Rock. It was 200-250 miles to each city from her location. .
The reason I knew there was no Kosher in her City was I happened to stop at the only store that ever sold Kosher in the town to find it was bought by Albertson's out of New Mexico. They replaced all the Kosher products with Mexiican products. They went out of business and Kosher was never stocked againr in that town.
And yes, it is very difficult to find a well written local paper because most of their writers don't understand grammar rules and there is no editer. If you want to read a well written paper you buy a national paper.
Coal fired plants were replaced by chicken procesing plants. A chicken rendering facility can stink up a town for miles in any direction. Of course these areas are not as congested as Chicago. My little city lot was 90 x 200. My Illinois city lot is 100x100. I lost one-fourth acre but gained location and 75% reduction in real estate taxes by moving back to Illinois. IL grocery tax is 1% where I live. It was 10% where I lived before I moved back. The initial doctors office call was $175 just like it is where I live now. Gasoline was $.03 different per gallon. Cigarettes are cheaper but Internet, cable, telephone and generally it isn't as good as what I have now. l left 512Kbps down from the cable company and gained 7Mbps down here. If you don't live in a City like Chicago or DC*you wo't see 50 or 100Mbps down. I moved from a town 10 times larger than where I live now that had a 20M annual budget and a 1M golf course. They thought they had everything, but I moved to a town that I know does; It always did.
One of the things that Illinois has that is outstanding senior services and services for children whohave a chronic illness.
What you need at age 30 is not the same as what you need when you are 70.
Good grief, there was no personal attack in my post, so please. I said if you're happy here, then great for you, but everyone's idea of utopia is different. Part of living in a less congested area of the country involves driving greater distances for entertainment, shopping, medical care, etc., but there are trade-offs i.e., lot sizes bigger than 50 X 125, proximity to national forests, lakes, rivers, mountains, etc. Not everyone's idea of the perfect town is having a Walgreen's on every corner.
You say this is the Illinois forum, not the Chicago forum. Fair enough. I'm still not sure what it is you are attempting to compare/contrast, but it's not apples to apples. Everything in your list would suggest the greater Chicago metropolitan area. But if you're comparing small town america in other states to small towns in Illinois you cannot discount the advantages of having Chicago nearby (excellent childrens hospitals, etc.) and you would still have to drive great distances to get there if you AREN'T in the immediate suburbs. I have a very difficult time believing that small towns in Illinois aren't facing the same challenges as small towns in any other state. Really, how many small towns in Illinois have world class childrens hospitals, abundant kosher food, Costco, Whole Foods, Ikea, Trader Joe's, fully equipped local emergency services, well written local paper, etc. If you aren't in the Chicago suburbs, you don't really have reasonable access to all of that either without having to drive great distances (psst, both Ikea locations in Illinois are in the Chicago suburbs).
Many states don't even levy a tax on groceries at all. Not sure what state you were in that charged 10% sales tax on groceries, but that sounds suspect to me.
Coal plants in Illinois have been replaced with chicken processing plants? This is news to me and I have NO clue where you got that idea from. Illinois has 32 coal fired plants within its state. There are only 3 other states that have more coal plants than Illinois. Coal is one of the dirtiest, most pollution producing forms of generating electricity. We are 5th in the nation for the amount of energy produced from coal plants. Yay us.
As I said in my other posts, if you're happy here for what you get for the $$, that's great. There's nothing worse than despising where you live. I'm just pointing out that there are many reasons people are moving out of this state. Illinois is facing many challenges, and there are many people who simply don't feel it's worth it to live here any more.
How would you feel if you took your kid to the hospital for tests and he came home iwht MRSA?
Just wanted to add this point.... MRSA is certainly not isolated to states other than Illinois. The hospital I was working at 10 years ago (West Suburban Hospital in Oak Park, IL) had a massive outbreak of MRSA in their newborn nursery.
How would you feel if your newborn baby came home with MRSA? Lots of babies and hospital staff contracted it and this isn't some po-dunk little hospital out in the boonies of MO. Illinois isn't somehow immune to infectious disease.
MRSA is a community disease. Maybe I am worng, but to me it says a gread deal about sanitation. The fact the ER doc didn't culture it says even more
I[ve been in states that had no real estate tax, but I never shopped in a state that had no grocery tax. I went down to Texas one year looking for property. AT that time they were talking about raising the hotel/motel/restaurant tax from 12% to 15%
The other states I was thinking of do not have coal fired plants. They have chicken plants. I could have been more clear about that point.
Chicago and St. Louis are the only towns where you can find Trader Joe's. Whole Foods and Costco. If you want iKEA and Cosco you'll go to Chicago. These stores do not traditionally move into any area with a general population of less than 1M. In fact if you look at TJ's locatioon map, you might be surprised where it is NOT located.
It is obvious that you like Chicago and its convenience. Let's set city pride aside for a minute. Chicago is not the only city in Illinois that has pretty good children's hospital or a natural food store or Vegan restaurant of host of other things that Chicago has. You might this fact interesting: "Children's Hospital of Illinois is the only full service tertiary hospital for kids in downstate Illinois. With 127 beds and more than 100 pediatric subspecialists, Children's Hospital cares for more children in Illinois than any hospital outside of Chicago." This City, according to Spreling has 3x mote physicians than the nationl average. It is also home to St Judes Researcb Hospital in the Midwest. Illinoisans ares lucky; there is more than one children's hospital in Illnois - not so in all other states - and we have some pretty good medical care as a whole.
What Illinois does have is 15M people and 2/3 live in the proximity of Lake Michigan, Therefore the rest of the state fights for recognition as well as grants, and funding from the state and federao government and good medical care -- the things that Chicagoans take for granted.
The only way to learn is to live in other states. . .
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