Peoria's growth (Chicago, Bloomington, West Peoria: new house, neighborhoods, subdivisions)

[PtownGuy]

There are two big reasons why Peoria is losing it's population rank - jobs & schools. Many younger adults move away from Peoria because there just aren't enought job opportunities here that will pay a decent wage. Many families with means have moved out of Peoria and into the surrounding metra areas (Washington, Dunlap, Morton, East Peoria, etc.) because of the problems of Peoria's district 150 schools. Peoria has hardly grown in population in 20 years and probably won't until these two issues are seriously addressed.

[linicx]

Mid-state Illinios is farming country. Central Illinois is in the livestock and grain belt.
If you want pld world pleasures try Europe.

[BUalumni]

Originally Posted by PtownGuy

There are two big reasons why Peoria is losing it's population rank - jobs & schools. Many younger adults move away from Peoria because there just aren't enought job opportunities here that will pay a decent wage.

I agree with you that dist 150 needs to do much better in terms of education, and that people do move into different areas because of it. But it isn't as if there aren't good schools in Peoria. You just can't except to make 40K a year, and live in their boundaries. I'm just confused about how is Peoria is loosing jobs, when every indicator suggests that Peoria is very healthy? How could Peoria be the cornerstone of Illinois' second largest metro, without having a significant job base? Give me a city the size of Peoria that you can have neighbors that are lifelong famers, and world class neuroscientists, and then talk to me about a bad job situation.

[Drover]

A "job base" and a healthy job market don't necessarily go hand in hand. Ask the the average Joe in Buffalo or Pittsburgh, two metro areas well beyond the size and scope of Peoria, what their job prospects are like. Better than the early 80s, but still lagging well behind the rest of the country. A "job base" is great for those who already have a job. But it takes a strong job market to attract those who are looking for one. If Peoria can't provide them but Bloomington can... well, guess where they're gonna go...

[BUalumni]

Originally Posted by Drover

A "job base" and a healthy job market don't necessarily go hand in hand. Ask the the average Joe in Buffalo or Pittsburgh, two metro areas well beyond the size and scope of Peoria, what their job prospects are like. Better than the early 80s, but still lagging well behind the rest of the country. A "job base" is great for those who already have a job. But it takes a strong job market to attract those who are looking for one. If Peoria can't provide them but Bloomington can... well, guess where they're gonna go...

I'm not sure you are aware of what is actually going on in Peoria. Comparing Peoria to Pittsburg is a sort of extreme though. The "scope" of Peoria is much wider than I think you understand. The city is the farming and manufacturing center for downstate, and a REGIONAL medical center. Both OSF and Methodist Medical Centers are experiencing major multi-million dollar extensions that will only confirm increase both the "base" and the "market." If you believe that the term "Rust Belt" is applied to Peoria the same way that it is applied to Buffalo or Pittsburg, then you really have a small experience with the community. Peoria metro is the second only to Chicago in number of doctors that live and practice within the state. Medicine is huge here! Peoria emlpoys thousands in a metro area that is now well over 350K and growing. That doesn't even begin to touch on the growth of Bloomington/Normal. Yes, those two cities have had a population explosion for well over a decade now, and have prospered greatly, but even that has slowed considerably. Not to mention, much of that growth in Bloomington was fueled by Peoria's market too. The amount of recent housing that was created was far more than what the job market in the Twin Cities could provide. Hints why the biggest downstate project ever, happened on I-74 through Peoria, not Bloomington. I don't think the state would write a check for one of the most expensive operations in Illinios' history, without having a reason for, or a commitment for continued economic output from that area. Peoria may not be Pittsburg, but it isn't Danville by any stretch of the imagination.

[Drover]

That's great. Medicine is huge in Pittsburgh too. In fact it's one of the top medical research cities in the nation. But Pittsburgh is still a soft job market. And so is Peoria. You appear to be confusing MSA population with job market vitality. The two have little relation to one another.

The region's unemployment rate is still markedly above the national average. And that's one of the main reasons why the metro area's population is practically stagnant: whatever other strengths the regional job market has in terms of diversity or sheer volume of employment or whatever, there isn't enough job growth to fuel economic or population growth. I also think you give way too much credit to the state government for the fiscal decisions it makes.

[BUalumni]

Originally Posted by Drover

That's great. Medicine is huge in Pittsburgh too. In fact it's one of the top medical research cities in the nation. But Pittsburgh is still a soft job market. And so is Peoria. You appear to be confusing MSA population with job market vitality. The two have little relation to one another.

The region's unemployment rate is still markedly above the national average. And that's one of the main reasons why the metro area's population is practically stagnant: whatever other strengths the regional job market has in terms of diversity or sheer volume of employment or whatever, there isn't enough job growth to fuel economic or population growth. I also think you give way too much credit to the state government for the fiscal decisions it makes.

I would like to know where you are getting your info for the whole metro region, and if you are considering Bloomington as part of it. In the past decade the bigger towns in Tazewell county have merged into one large suburban city if you will. This is a direct result of Peoria's economy, not themselves. My town has nearly added 6.5 times that people that it had just seven years ago! These aren't all people that are natives to Peoria. Most of these are transplants to the area. The response that I made was in reference to someone that lives in Peoria now. Have you been to Peoria within the last ten years? If not, you have not seen the growth that has happened. Don't try to critique the situation in Peoria, through Chicago eyes. Not every city in the state aspires to become what Chicagoland is. Peoria is still leagues ahead of any suburban city.

[Drover]

I'm getting my statistics from the Census Bureau and the comparison of their population estimates in 2006 versus the 2000 census count for the Peoria MSA. And what the estimate reveals is that there is very, very little net population growth in the Peoria MSA. By the way, an MSA is determined primarily by commute patterns, which will take into account the growth near Bloomington-Normal created by the Peoria market. This is why, for instance, Kenosha is considered part of the Chicago MSA even though it's a lot closer to Milwaukee than Chicago.

I'll simply reiterate what I said earlier in this thread: don't mistake sprawl for growth. Sometimes sprawl is fueled by growth, but sometimes it's simply fueled by a reduction in overall population density -- people just plain spreading out, usually moving from the city center out to suburbs. That's what's happening in the Peoria area.

[BUalumni]

Originally Posted by Drover

I'm getting my statistics from the Census Bureau and the comparison of their population estimates in 2006 versus the 2000 census count for the Peoria MSA. And what the estimate reveals is that there is very, very little net population growth in the Peoria MSA. By the way, an MSA is determined primarily by commute patterns, which will take into account the growth near Bloomington-Normal created by the Peoria market. This is why, for instance, Kenosha is considered part of the Chicago MSA even though it's a lot closer to Milwaukee than Chicago.

I'll simply reiterate what I said earlier in this thread: don't mistake sprawl for growth. Sometimes sprawl is fueled by growth, but sometimes it's simply fueled by a reduction in overall population density -- people just plain spreading out, usually moving from the city center to outer suburbs. That's what's happening in the Peoria area.

I'm confused. "Don't mistake sprawl for growth." ?? Then what is 90% of Chicagoland or any metro area.

You are correct to a certian point that people are leaving Peoria for other towns. But when people talk about this, they seem to think that Peoria is turning into absolute ghetto, which is simply not the case. The extreme wealth in the area lies still within Peoria. In fact, this population shift is actually happening more within the city itself, than it is with the other towns. Your post just disturbed me a little, because you compared Peoria to Buffalo, and then went on to post on a thread about Buffalo having extreme poverty, and bad educational propects. Peoria is not Buffalo.

[Drover]

Originally Posted by BUalumni

I'm confused. "Don't mistake sprawl for growth." ?? Then what is 90% of Chicagoland or any metro area.

You are correct to a certian point that people are leaving Peoria for other towns. But when people talk about this, they seem to think that Peoria is turning into absolute ghetto, which is simply not the case. The extreme wealth in the area lies still within Peoria. In fact, this population shift is actually happening more within the city itself, than it is with the other towns. Your post just disturbed me a little, because you compared Peoria to Buffalo, and then went on to post on a thread about Buffalo having extreme poverty, and bad educational propects. Peoria is not Buffalo.

Well, kinda like Peoria, most of our metro area started out in the city center and then sprawled out. That was sprawl fueled by growth. And also like the Peoria metro area, the Chicago metro area's population is barely growing today. Yet the sprawl continues because, like the Peoria metro area, the existing net population is simply spreading out. There are a number of factors that can drive sprawl without growth. In Chicago's case, it's been motivated in large part by the pursuit of cheaper land/housing. One also cannot overlook the shrinking household size. It now requires more housing units to house the same number of people because each household now has fewer people. Whatever is motivating sprawl in the Peoria area, a population boom isn't part of it.

The analogy between Buffalo and Peoria was simply to illustrate a larger population does not mean better job market. That is all. I made no comparison to respective rates of poverty, ghetto-ness or whatever. I have made no judgments or references to Peoria's poverty level or ghettohood in this thread; only that its unemployment rate lags behind the national average.