Does ISU do a bad job capitalizing on its name (Chicago: appointed, schools)

[edsg25]

Originally Posted by rfr69

I'm not following your point at all. People still refer to Illinois State University as ISU, I can't recall ever hearing anyone refer to it as Illinois State University.

Also, why is it better that the name is what it is. Your pretty dumb if your gong to pick a school just because it's called Illinois State University instead of University of Illinois, Eastern Illinois University, etc.

People pick schools based on price, location, majors they specialize in, having friends go there, a coach they want to play for, facilities they have, etc. Nobody I know makes a decision solely based on the way the name is structured, especially considering they are all refered to as ISU, SIU, UIC< etc

First of all, I am not suggesting that students pick schools based on their name.

what I am sharing here is a proven fact:

for better or for worse, universities across the nation have gone with name changes because of the visibility they think the name change gives.

"directional schools" often go to great length to get rid of the direction and get a state wide image. It cost a lot of money for them to do so. Recently, Southwest Missouri State Univ became Missouri State University. the University of Missouri spent its own money to fight the move, not wanting that school to get a state wide image.

Meanwhile, its flagship university, Mizzou, legally changed its name from the University of Missouri/Columbia to the University of Missouri (its original name). It did so to change the localized image that the city of Columbia added to its name.

San Jose State, the oldest public school in California has been fighting for a long time to get its name changed to California State University/San Jose, but only with the proviso that the "San Jose" part is not stressed and the school be known as California State University in the same way that UC Berkeley alone in the UC system as the oldest school in it gets to call itself Cal.

Do I agree with you that this is nonsense? Absolutely. I never suggested otherwise.

All I said was that there are two naming systems among public universities that sell best.....the University of Put-Your-State's-Name-Here and Put-Your-State's-Name-Here State University (with no city name afterwards).

Do those names always work out the same way? No, in Michigan, both the University of Michigan and Michigan State University are flagships. In Illinois, the University of Illinois (UIUC) is the flagship; Illinois State is not.
(and I'm sure there are folks at Champaign Urbana that wish the drop the "UC" from the "UI").

But even without flagship status, Illinois State still has a state wide image through its name which NIU, SIU, etc., do not. And in the competitive world for universities which are killing each other to get students, all stops are removed. They do whatever they can. And they rely heavily on image. Whether it is the USN&WR beauty contest or a name with a higher appeal are goals.

I didn't invent the system, rfr; I'm merely talking here about realities that exist and exist with deep money pockets. It cost a fortune to change a university's name; many schools are willing to pay that fortune.

[Chicago76]

Originally Posted by edsg25

I have to assume you don't mean the likes of such fine institutions as UW-Madison, UIowa, IU, and Purdue.

I'm guessing you are thinking about the lesser UW's, Ind St, Ball St, UNI matching up to NIU, ISU, SIU, etc...


right?

Yeah. I was comparing worst of the Ill publics to the worst of the neighborhing state publics. I'd let my kid go to ISU or the directional Ill schools before I'd let them go to the directionals in MI, Ball St., Ind. St., etc.

Still, I don't think the name is particularly relevant. Ohio State is a big name, but Ohio University isn't for example. Georgia Tech is a much bigger name than Georgia St., and probably equally known as Georgia. Just examples.

[edsg25]

Originally Posted by Chicago76

Ohio State is a big name, but Ohio University isn't for example.

the state of Ohio is a different breed of cat.

It alone in the midwest developed excellent public universities early in its development in the form of schools like Ohio and Miami. Ohio State was the landgrant institution and unlike any of the other flagship public universities, had to really fight for its status, especially in light of the in-state competition. the joke of tOSU (the Ohio State University) was the insistent the "the" got into the name to nail down the status.

[linicx]

Edge25 it is so easy to confuse the Missouri universities in Jopin and Springfield because of the various name changes over the years. As far I know they both started out life as teaching schools as did ISU. .

Missiouri Southern State College - Joplin in 2003 became MSSU-Jopin and in 2005 Joplin was dropped the name.

Missouri State College was founded in 1905 as the Fourth District Normal School at Springfield.
In 1945 the name changes to Southwest Missouri State College and in 1972 to Southwest Missouri State University. The name was changed again in 2005 to Missouris State University.

ISU was founed in 1857 as Illinois State Normal Univerity as a teachers college. 107-years later the name changed to Illinois State University at Normal, and in less than five years the name Normal was finally dropped and the name changed to Illinois State Univeristy. Today it is multi-discipline school that offers master and doctorate programs. It ranks well nationally as well as in value.

[edsg25]

Originally Posted by linicx

ISU was founed in 1857 as Illinois State Normal Univerity as a teachers college. 107-years later the name changed to Illinois State University at Normal, and in less than five years the name Normal was finally dropped and the name changed to Illinois State Univeristy. Today it is multi-discipline school that offers master and doctorate programs. It ranks well nationally as well as in value.

if there's a parallel to ISU, I think it would be found in Ohio where both Ohio and Miami far proceeded Ohio State, the land grant institution and, unlike the others, emerged after the Civil War. Both Miami and Ohio had good reputations at the time and continue so today. I don't think there was anything ordained about OSU getting the flagship role, but it fought hard to do so, always projecting at state wide image. I suppose it didn't hurt to be in Columbus.

ISNU had a narrower focus than Ohio and Miami, but it did proceed the Illinois Industrial University (gad...what a name) that became the U of I. One has to wonder why it didn't try to advance into the state flagship, but I suppose being tied in mainly with education was a deterent.

Even IU had to fight fight a previously started territorial public university in Vincences (I believe) to achieve flagship status. I think Indiana was different from other states in that when Purdue was established (as a university, never a college) as the land grant school, the two became dual flagships in the 19th century. Pretty unusual. Then again, Indiana is different in that each of those schools has a different role with less overlap, IU more into liberal arts and the professional schools, Purdue into math and technology.

Other states evolved into that two flagship role over time. It took MSU (which began as an ag college) to go through numerous name changes and widening of its ciricullum to become a flagship with U-M in Michigan.

I still have to wonder if any of our state universities will ever achieve second flagship status along with U of I? As noted before, I'd bet on UIC. 2nd bet would be ISU.

[linicx]

ISU was founded and teaching before the Civil War. I've never seen anything that indicates the Board wants ISU to be a second flagship school or second-rate. Leave prestige to the Chicago schools; those schools have a lot more to lose than Normal, Illinois. Prestige aside Chicago is a magnet city. Can you honestly imagine a Harvard surrounded by cornfields? .I can't, but I can imagine an Harvard campus in Streeterville.

I have no doubt if we take the top 10 brightest seniors from ISU and UIC and put them through all day testing they will do equally well. It won't prove a thing, but it might dispell the myth that students in Chicago are somehow magically superior to students in the rest of the state because they go to a school in Chicago.

[thePR]

Originally Posted by linicx

ISU was founded and teaching before the Civil War. I've never seen anything that indicates the Board wants ISU to be a second flagship school or second-rate. Leave prestige to the Chicago schools; those schools have a lot more to lose than Normal, Illinois. Prestige aside Chicago is a magnet city. Can you honestly imagine a Harvard surrounded by cornfields? .I can't, but I can imagine an Harvard campus in Streeterville.

I have no doubt if we take the top 10 brightest seniors from ISU and UIC and put them through all day testing they will do equally well. It won't prove a thing, but it might dispell the myth that students in Chicago are somehow magically superior to students in the rest of the state because they go to a school in Chicago.

A lot of great schools are in smaller towns/cities.

[linicx]

Yes there area. Eureka College is fine example. Not only did it graduate a US President with a double major, it is also a Top 25 Liberal Arts College in America.

Let's say you live in a small town in North Dakota and you have a smart kid who was accepted/ full scholorshiop at UIC, ISU and Eureka. .What do you think your child's first choice is: cornfields or bright city lights?

Chicago is a magnet cty. Kids are far more interested in the location and bragging rights associated with prestige than what the school offers them. Two years down the road they will have a different perspective of what is important when it comes to employment.

Ten years ago I had the occassion to meet a Chicago student on line. He was working on his Master in Engineering. He worked part time at McCormick Place, rode a bike to school and lived in a crummy apartment with a friend to conserve money. He graduated with honors and was hired by Motorola at $80K/ perks. The first thing he did was buy a used car. He found a nicer apartment and then he flew his parents from India to Chicago for a two week vacation during the Christmas holidays. He had not seen his parents in 3-years.

He said he did not date because he did not have the time or money. His spaare time hobby was studying. The brightest kids in any school do the same thing: they put their dream first. My friend's dream was to become a engineer and make his parents proud.

He could have accompllshed the same thing in any school, but he chose Chicago because he felt it offered better job opportunities.

Chicago is a magnet city.

Originally Posted by thePR

A lot of great schools are in smaller towns/cities.

[nJohn]

Originally Posted by linicx

Yes there area. Eureka College is fine example. Not only did it graduate a US President with a double major, it is also a Top 25 Liberal Arts College in America.

Can't say I agree. It maybe a Top 25 LAC in the Midwest region but nationally, not even close.

[nJohn]

Originally Posted by Maintainschaos

My experience in college has been that people tend to look for two types of higher education experiences: large universities that dominate in a number of academic areas, or small liberal arts colleges. I think ISU lies in a funky position. It is not quite good enough to run with the top dogs in Illinois (UIUC, University of Chicago, Northwestern) nor the top universities in the Midwest, but it also isn't small enough and dedicated to liberal arts studies enough to be recognized as that "really good, small liberal arts college in Illinois." Unfortunately, I think its middle-of-the-pack academics maybe plays more of a role in its recognition rather than its name. I am not denigrating ISU--I think it's a perfectly good school that produces well-educated people and is recognized in a few subcategories as being top notch. However, I don't think I'd be wrong in saying there are a multitude of other schools in the country that are not too dissimilar than ISU.

One state university that achieves this LAC feeling is Eastern Illinois University. The size of the university is ideal and the classes are usually small while the professors are mostly competent. Now if it can find funds to beef up some of its departments it'll gain ground that'll be an asset to the state when it comes to relatively cheap higher education.