Divide Illinois in 2 (Chicago, Aurora, Peoria: rent, companies, art)

[SOON2BNSURPRISE]

In California there has been talk for years about dividing the state into a North C and a South C. Never seems to take off though. With California you probably could get away with it though because of the amount of people dispered throughout the state. At the same time no one seems to agree on what is North California and what is Southern California. Los Angeles county is considered as part of Southern California and most people that live in Ventura County also consider themselves as being in Southern California althought they are north west of LA county. Santa Barbara County just North of Ventura County also is split on where they should be. Some have even said that everything North of LA county should be Northern California and the rest should be Southern California. But Ventura county and part of Santa Barbara county are next to LA county and just as far South as some parts of LA county. Then the other part of California that is not spoken of much is the great Central valley. Those people have little voice and do we slitt them in half? I doubt that it would ever happen and can't see it making any sence. Maybe it is different in Illinois. Never knew that it was an issue. You just learn so much reading City Data Forum.

[illini84]

Originally Posted by Jons99

Kankakee County is downstate, you should have liked that...

There is only one county between Kankakee County and Cook County. And Kankakee County is in the northern third of the state. That's not "downstate".

Just another example of how Chicago people think there is Chicago, then everywhere else all jumbled together.

[BUalumni]

Originally Posted by Steve-o

Then do something with your economy down there. Its in shambles (in most areas) and everyone's solution seems to be to retreat to some God-forsaken sunbelt city.

I'm not sure I quite follow your thoughts. "Shambles"?? I would like you to further elaborate on what "in most areas" mean. The only places in downstate Illinois that have seen a dramatic downward spiral have been heavy industrial towns such as Decatur and Danville(which has more to do with Indiana it seems than anything Illinois). Sure, there are many farm towns that are not doing so well, but wake-up, this is the 21st century midwest, and with sunbelt states booming, you had better get used to it. Downstate Illinois is not the only place seeing this. Everything else in "down" state, outside of the major cities, and the St. Louis metro, is heavily farming based. Seeing that Illinois continues to lead the way in feeding the WORLD, I don't think that it is justified saying that it is in "shambles" just yet. Are these farmers Fortune 500 tycoons? No. But not every place is like Chicago and can boast that. Peoria is doing just fine, and its metro is predicted to be the fastest growing area of the state in a few years. Not only is it home to downstates largest tech "area", but also a leader in the midwest for medicine. For a city the size of Peoria to support a world headquarters of a company that makes the Dow Jones Industrial Average, three hospitals(two of which are some of the most recognized in the nation), a wide assortment of colleges, a metro area that is well over 350K, and an attractive retail/commercial sector with condo highrises that are priced in the millions is saying something. Bloomington/Normal is EXPLODING in terms of commerce and population. Champaign/Urbana is doing the same. Springfield will always have a healthy and stable economy and has grown so much that it now exceeds Peoria in population. With a powerhouse like Chicago at your doorstep, it is easy to under estimate anything else in the state. But it is cities like Aurora/Naperville that are looking to get a piece of the action in central Illinois, not the other way around. If you don't believe me, look at the cities that are driving the Peoria/Chicago highway. They aren't down here.

[trailerguy]

I used to live and California and we had the same dumb debate there, similarly driven by some people in the south who complained they were subsidizing the rest of the state and others in the north who complained that the south was hogging all the power and resources. In reality it comes out pretty much even. Same here.

The problem in Illinois is our worthless governor who holes up in his house in Sauganash and won't even go to his office in the Thompson Building, much less to Springfield where he is paid to work, and with a lovely house to boot.

But that's not the fault of Chicago (downstate people voted for him too), and certainly is not cause to split our great state. I love this whole state. I'd hate to lose any of it.

[Avengerfire]

Originally Posted by trailerguy

I used to live and California and we had the same dumb debate there, similarly driven by some people in the south who complained they were subsidizing the rest of the state and others in the north who complained that the south was hogging all the power and resources. In reality it comes out pretty much even. Same here.

The problem in Illinois is our worthless governor who holes up in his house in Sauganash and won't even go to his office in the Thompson Building, much less to Springfield where he is paid to work, and with a lovely house to boot.

But that's not the fault of Chicago (downstate people voted for him too), and certainly is not cause to split our great state. I love this whole state. I'd hate to lose any of it.

Sir Helmet lives in the unofficial "Ravenswood Manor" neighborhood in the Albany Park community in Chicago, which is very close to Lincoln Square.

[BUalumni]

Originally Posted by Drover

I'm sick of hearing this argument, and here's why: the reason we have so many impoverished up here is because we actually provide services for them that downstate municipalities either can't or won't. We are a poverty magnet; we draw them off your hands. And every time that paradigm shifts just a little bit, every time some of them start filtering into, say, Decatur or Peoria or the Chambana area (see: Rantoul, Danville), you all scream "Oh my God, stop sending your detritus down here! TAKE THEM BACK!" If we didn't provide the services that draws the poor here, the poor would scatter to the winds, including your neck of the woods, and you'd be BEGGING us to take them back and would be grateful that your welfare dollars are spent up here so that you don't have to deal with them. So pay up and like it. The rest of us already pay AND we have to actually deal with them hands-on.

What makes us mad is the fact that you have other, large cities up there that can deal with this, not just Chicago. Why has Chicago decided to "dump" (and I will use that word because it is the truth!) these prior Chicago residents in places like Peoria, Bloomington, and Springfield, while cities like Naperville are not looked to first? Why put people that don't want to be here and shouldn't be here, in a place that is not home for them, and creates even tighter segregation lines within the cities? I keep reading over and over and over again on this site how affluent and prosperous DuPage county is. Well, if they have the money to handle it, let them do it! The poverty stricken residents would be much closer to home, and would be living in a lifestyle that may help them on their road back to success. DuPage County is right at Chicago's doorstep, but Chicago knows the public relations nightmare that awaits them if they were to go through with it. Don't act like we send of ALL of our poverty stricken poor into Chicago, because that just simply isn't the case. Our cities deal with what we have, PLUS that of Chicago. Go into the west side of Bloomington today and say that Chicago is doing downstate a favor today in terms of poverty and I am certain you will have a scene.

Why has no one touched the issue of power yet. If this state were to split into two seperate pieces, Chicagoland would not be able to function as they would have no power available to so. Do you realize how many private power plants, that are heavily downstate affliated, provide power to large portions of Chicagoland? With the wind mill buisness really taking off down here, downstate is not worried in the least sense about power. Many sectors of downstate have a very real attitude towards Chicago, and the last thing Chicago needs is for power competitive cities like Indianapolis and St. Louis to match the Chicago bids of these already unhappy power facility owners. Hamilton county Indiana is going through a population boom right now, and they will need power in the coming years. With Chicago boasting such success, real or not, many disgruntled people may turn the other way. Chicago should be less quick to pronounce downstate inferior when their success and growth is dependent on how far we are willing to allow expansion.

[Manigault]

This thread was about some downstaters complaining about Chicago, not the reverse. As to power needs, the Chicago area would probably buy electric power from NIPSCO in IN or try to re-open the Zion nuclear power plant or something. But the Chicago region would be able to buy power from somewhere.

[BUalumni]

Originally Posted by Manigault

This thread was about some downstaters complaining about Chicago, not the reverse. As to power needs, the Chicago area would probably buy electric power from NIPSCO in IN or try to re-open the Zion nuclear power plant or something. But the Chicago region would be able to buy power from somewhere.

This thread was about dividing the state into two seperate pieces, based upon how downstate felt about Chicago ruling the state. I have also read several posts from Chicago residents complaining about downstate projects and taxes, so it goes both ways.

I think you are tragically underestimating how much power Chicago would actually need to make up if the state where to divide in two. There is huge facility just south of Pekin and another even bigger one on the extreme east edge of Bartonville/Mapleton. Both of which send all of their power directly to Chicago. They aren't even the biggest in the state that do so. If anything, the downstate operators, seeing that they no longer have state regulations that they have to follow, and also seeing that Chicago is a potenial, seperate bidder, and not another city in Illinois, would raise the prices very high and still Chicago would have to pay up. I only brought this subject into play after getting the feeling from C-D members from Chicago, that their city would loose nothing if it were to become its own seperate feature. I'm not familiar with NIPSCO, but I'm sure that they would not be able build plants or even begin to facilitate the amount of power that would be needed to make the difference. Not to mention all the negatives that come from having a nuclear power plant sitting around town.

[Avengerfire]

The power issue is mute since Exelon owns most of the power plants that produce huge amounts of electricity. Even if the state split up, Exelon would still serve Chicago. They own the plants. If the "southern state" wanted to expel Exelon they would be commiting economic suicide nor could they control whom Exelon sells their power to. There are plenty of power plants in the Chicago area/Northern Illinois to sustain Northern Illinois. In fact, those are the plants that sell off their power more than the "downstate" plants. It could get ugly if the downstaters did not have Northern Illinois power.

Exelon Nuke plants(most of the Chicago areas power comes from these plants):

"The Quad Cities power plant is named for the nearby cities of Davenport, Rock Island, Moline, and East Moline. The power plant is not only named for these cities, but serves them, in addition to western part of Exelon's service territory. " ----Downstate? Depends on whom you ask. Northern Illinois for sure.

"The Lasalle County dual-reactor station serves Chicago and northern Illinois." Downstate? Not the Chicago area, but not "downstate." Northern Illinois.

"The Dresden nuclear power plant is located on a 953-acre site in Grundy County. It serves Chicago and the northern quarter of the State of Illinois. Dresden 1 was retired in 1978. " Downstate? No. Chicago area? Almost. Northern Illinois? For sure.

'The Clinton Power Station and is 5,000-acre cooling reservoir are located on a 14000-acre site near Clinton, Illinois. Clinton's final construction cost exceeded $4 billion, leading the plant to produce some of the most expensive power in the Midwest. " Downstate? Yes.

"The Byron plant contains two light water reactors. It is located in Ogle County, Illinois."
Northern Illinois.

'The Braidwood Station is located in Will County in northeastern Illinois. It serves Chicago and northern Illinois. Braidwood's recent up rates make it the largest nuclear plant in the State. The three largest Illinois' plants, however, are nearly equal (LaSalle is only 2 net megawatts smaller than Braidwood and Byron is only 4 net megawatts less in capacity than LaSalle.) " Northern Illinois. Chicago area? Yes.

State Nuclear Industry - Illinois

As far as coal:

"Nearly 72 percent of Illinois coal is sold to out-of-state utilities."

"...Harvard School of Public Health released a study of the health effects of fine particle pollution from nine coal-fired power plants in Illinois, each of which is more than twenty-five years old. (The plants are located in Chicago, Joliet, Waukegan, Pekin, Hennepin, Bartonville, and Romeoville.) ..."

Conscious Choice: Dirty, Coal-Fired Power Plants in Illinois

http://www.commerce.state.il.us/NR/r...ctsDec2006.pdf

[Avengerfire]

Originally Posted by BUalumni

This thread was about dividing the state into two seperate pieces, based upon how downstate felt about Chicago ruling the state. I have also read several posts from Chicago residents complaining about downstate projects and taxes, so it goes both ways.

I think you are tragically underestimating how much power Chicago would actually need to make up if the state where to divide in two. There is huge facility just south of Pekin and another even bigger one on the extreme east edge of Bartonville/Mapleton. Both of which send all of their power directly to Chicago. They aren't even the biggest in the state that do so. If anything, the downstate operators, seeing that they no longer have state regulations that they have to follow, and also seeing that Chicago is a potenial, seperate bidder, and not another city in Illinois, would raise the prices very high and still Chicago would have to pay up. I only brought this subject into play after getting the feeling from C-D members from Chicago, that their city would loose nothing if it were to become its own seperate feature. I'm not familiar with NIPSCO, but I'm sure that they would not be able build plants or even begin to facilitate the amount of power that would be needed to make the difference. Not to mention all the negatives that come from having a nuclear power plant sitting around town.

You are very wrong. See my post.