Divide Illinois in 2 (Chicago, Springfield, Quincy: credit, tax rates, living)

[Drover]

Originally Posted by histo320

The complaining of where downstate should start and stop is a stupid one. Chicago will always say that Kankakee is in the boonies. Well those of us downstate know that they are wrong!!! Downstate we have seen Chicago politics ruin our lives', ruin our schools, ruin our roads, and ruin our way of life.

Nevermind that Rochester High School along with 100's of other schools are over crowded and needs funding for a new buildings, books, desks, and teachers, but hey, Chicago needs a new road, or new park, or toll way, or god forbid a new football stadium (which was paid by a hotel tax and that money could have went to fix our roads).

I don't think you understand how most of these things are funded. Tollways are funded with toll revenues, which downstaters don't have to pay since your roads are free. State funding for downstate roads is ovewhelmingly paid for by taxes generated upstate, so we are actually subsidizing your roads far more than the other way around. State funding for schools applies uniformly upstate or downstate, and the rest is paid for by local property taxes. If you want better schools, feel free to raise the revenue to pay for them, just like we do upstate. And to the extent that a football stadium provided mostly a local benefit, it makes sense that local taxes raised here in Chicago be the primary revenue source for it. Why on earth should Chicago hotel taxes pay for downstate roads? What is the proximate connection between the two? If you want more local operating revenue, tax your own hotels instead of complaining that you can't glom onto ours.

[oakparkdude]

Originally Posted by Drover

I don't think you understand how most of these things are funded. Tollways are funded with toll revenues, which downstaters don't have to pay since your roads are free. State funding for downstate roads is ovewhelmingly paid for by taxes generated upstate, so we are actually subsidizing your roads far more than the other way around. State funding for schools applies uniformly upstate or downstate, and the rest is paid for by local property taxes. If you want better schools, feel free to raise the revenue to pay for them, just like we do upstate. And to the extent that a football stadium provided mostly a local benefit, it makes sense that local taxes raised here in Chicago be the primary revenue source for it. Why on earth should Chicago hotel taxes pay for downstate roads? What is the proximate connection between the two? If you want more local operating revenue, tax your own hotels instead of complaining that you can't glom onto ours.

Awesome post. I can only hope the facts dispel some of the ignorance out there. The fact remains that metro Chicago, despite its many problems, is an enormous generator of wealth and prosperity. The state of Illinois benefits by capturing a portion of that wealth through taxes, which benefits/subsidizes the less wealthy portions of the state.

Furthermore without a vibrant metro area like Chicago, Illinois would be one of those midwestern states facing demographic collapse as it loses its young people to other parts of the country. Instead, Illinois is gaining these valuable residents as college graduates move in droves to Chicago once out of school.

[histo320]

Illinois should learn from North Carolina on school funding. All schools receive almost an equal amount of funding. 1st year teachers make 32,320 at every school. They do not have the major inequality that Illinois has both downstate and in Chicago, but they also don't have a large metro area either but several small ones. There taxes are based on a State Income Tax, and part of Sales Taxes.

[Avengerfire]

Originally Posted by histo320

Illinois should learn from North Carolina on school funding. All schools receive almost an equal amount of funding. 1st year teachers make 32,320 at every school. They do not have the major inequality that Illinois has both downstate and in Chicago, but they also don't have a large metro area either but several small ones. There taxes are based on a State Income Tax, and part of Sales Taxes.

So you want to raise the State Income tax now and further crush the impoverished areas of rural Illinois as well as overburden everyone else even more than they already are in the Chicago area?

[HeadedWest]

Originally Posted by sukwoo

Awesome post. I can only hope the facts dispel some of the ignorance out there. The fact remains that metro Chicago, despite its many problems, is an enormous generator of wealth and prosperity. The state of Illinois benefits by capturing a portion of that wealth through taxes, which benefits/subsidizes the less wealthy portions of the state.

Furthermore without a vibrant metro area like Chicago, Illinois would be one of those midwestern states facing demographic collapse as it loses its young people to other parts of the country. Instead, Illinois is gaining these valuable residents as college graduates move in droves to Chicago once out of school.

Those downstate peasants should be more grateful to their Chicago overlords!

[coldwine]

Originally Posted by HeadedWest

Those downstate peasants should be more grateful to their Chicago overlords!

Damn straight they should be. When I think of the taxes that are wasted on the rest of the state it's mind boggling. For example, those people living outside of Chicago and its boundaries don't have to deal with the Chicago police. I sure as hell did, and frankly I and everyone else who has to deserves a sincere, hand-written "thank you" note from Mayor Daley himself.

Or the politicians. Nothing like Chicago politicians. The taxes on taxes on taxes, on top of taxes assessed based on taxes... You could put all of this to a song something like the Grinch's complaint of Hooville.

What's most infuriating, though, are the subzero mornings I've had to spend freezing my already lilywhite ass off at a station hoping to god the train would arrive soon. And it never did. Why? Because for some reason, there's always a critical shortage of money and it's never available to fix the CTA. I suppose agricultural subsidies for farmers and free roads for the downstaters are just more important than having a basic transit infrastructure in place.

I don't think that I or anyone else with a reasonable mind dislikes the state of Illinois, but if you live in Chicago and have a basic understanding of finance, it's hard not to see how badly you're getting screwed by the hicks from the sticks that compose the state legislature.

[Drover]

^^^ Well, that's an interesting perspective I guess.

[HeadedWest]

Originally Posted by coldwine

I don't think that I or anyone else with a reasonable mind dislikes the state of Illinois, but if you live in Chicago and have a basic understanding of finance, it's hard not to see how badly you're getting screwed by the hicks from the sticks that compose the state legislature.

I think it would be an interesting thing to have a referendum in southern Illinois to see if they would like to unhook the state from Chicago. I think the proponents would use you as the poster boy for why they should disconnect.

If the "hicks" had any power, would you have the joke you have as governor?

[sandiegotransplant]

It's REALLY hard to sympathize with all the complainers north of I-80. It appears they actually have no concept of the tax burden that we who live and work south of I-80 bear - let's face it, our government - be it city, county, state, or federal, is taxing all of us into the poor-house and mis-managing our funds, while they all line their pockets with special-interest money. It's not the good citizen's of our fair land, it is our leaders who have created this monster of 'division' among us. Wake up and smell the coffee people!

[cubssoxfan]

Wow, this is more interesting than McCain or Obama! Back to that in a minute...
Regarding:

Our Jr. High and Sr. high properties area joined. Five streets carry student and vehicle traffic in and out of the schools. All five streets are US and State highways. There is nary a stoplight, stop sign or marked crosswalk for any school exit. The jr high faces US 160. The 20 mile school zone is two blocks. Trucks buzz past this school 50 mph every day of the week, Worst, they ignore the flashing school lignts. I fianlly managed to talk to the guy that runs IDOT and convinced him to help the kids. In the meantime every bigr rig I catch running school lights I contact the owners. They don't like driver complaints before they have coffee. I don't like the idea of what will happen if an 80,000# truck going 50mph hits a 80# kid. The state would be down here installing a light before the cops could scrape the kid off the highway.

Where the *ell is your police force?!! We have the same problems here with people blowing off school speed zones. There are some that are adhered to however. They are the ones that have regular police presence writing tickets. Trucks have CB's. If your town starts doing this it will have an impact. Have you talked to the PD commander? Try it, I know the PD in Arlington Heights will listen to complaints like this. If your call is not responded to, call city hall and ask to be a speaker at the next city hall board meeting and invite some neighbors to "have your back". No criticisms here, just being a guy and trying to help you fix this. Speeders in school zones *iss me off big time!
I travel most of the state for business and S. IL is really different. That's both good and bad. The southern edge of the state is closer to Memphis than Chicago. Local TV staions come from Carbondale, Paducah KY., Cape Girardeau MO and St. Louis. Central IL. has it own vibe too. NW IL also. Then there is the huge Chicago-land area.
I wonder how much of this also revolves around a liberal vs. conservative mind-set? Being a suburbanite, I feel like I stradle the divide to a certain degree. I do see the S. IL view point of a corrupt, inefficient Democratic machine burdening tax payers with ever increasing taxes without the corresponding increase in services.
I see it in Chicago, Cook county and at the state level. I would love to see the NW cook suburbs join Lake Co. or become independent county. We have a healthy tax base, and if the money is used efficiently (not for patronage) we would do just fine paying for our own government and infrastructure! I bet we wouldn't need a 10% sales tax and the exhorbitant property taxes to do it.
As far as previous poster accuratley complaining about under-funded CTA, well the Democrat governor gave free rides to many who said they don't need it and the system is reluctant to raise fares to a more "pay as you go" structure vs. "social funding" system. Have you looked at Metra fares? Why not raise the CTA fares, improve the product to reflect the higher fares and give fare subsidies to those who truly need it?