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As background, my family is relocating to the Downers Grove area. We are looking for homes in DG, Wheaton, Glen Ellyn, and North Naperville. We have three elementary age children. As many have commented, inventory on good houses in subdivisions (meaning updated kitchens, good lots), is extremely low and the houses go quick. I am trying to expand our search without adding a major commute.
I have always lived in the suburbs in an established subdivision, so this is just what I know. I have no judgement, just no knowledge either. I am wondering what it is like to live in these super nice houses that are tear downs. How do neighbors feel about that. Do blocks of streets have the same feel as living in a subdivision?
This is our fourth re-lo, and this one is proving the most difficult to find a house we want. Three houses that looked the best were gone within two days....we weren't even able to get to see them yet. I don't want to pigeon hole us into subdivision living, but I just don't know what it's like to live in a tear down, and I'm not sure we've got the time to do a major rehab on a house that needs a lot of updates (and judge away, but this is my fifth house, so I'm kinda done with the whole fixer upper thing!)
Any insight from the locals would be great. I've never been able to walk anywhere, so that sounds intriguing, but my husband travels a lot, so I would like to be in a safer neighborhood.
Don't know where you are coming from or your budget but you have NOTHING to fear about "safety" in places like Downers Grove or Glen Ellyn, these are very desirable towns with extremely high desirability and that is precisely why folks tear down older, smaller homes and build newer, larger homes on the lots! For older homes that have inadequate room sizes / lack of current features tearing down and building new is a cost effective option becuase folks will gladly spend the $500k++ to live in a safe, convenient, area with good schools and other nice amenities.
As far as "how neighbors feel about this" the bottom line is that the majority of people are pretty happy to live in such an area as it makes it easier to sell to developer that will tear down vs some picky buyer that unrealistically expects old homes to be "perfect in every way". This leads to some side effects like a wide range of ages on such blocks. It is also true that you get some newly married folks buying unimproved homes as their "starter" and some older folks that are encouraged to invest in their homes as they know that they'll get to enjoy their home in their retirement and get their money back should they decide to downsize. All-in-all this is a good situation and frankly I know that is not just a Chicago region phenonoma -- a little surprised you have not encountered this in other areas, it is a big factor in the desirable parts of semi-urban areas near most cities of the northeast, traditionally desirable parts of California near San Fransico, Palo Alto, Pasedena, high income areas around Colorado, the luxury areas near SMU in Dallas and many other places...
There are several firms that specialize in downing "turnkey" renovations -- you hire them, give them a budget, they do soup-to-nuts overhaul of the house and becuase they know ahead of time what you can spend they will give you options in your rice range to deliver an updated house in a guaranteed period of time. Place like Airoom, Bradford & Kent, LaMantia, and Normandy are extremely active in the towns of DuPage / west Cook Co and have earned a very good reputation of helping people that do not have the patience / skills to oversee a big renovation. Of course they charge a premium for providing multiple "client contact" opportunities, professional project management / supervision and overhead of having staff designers / showrooms but this another good option for folks that do not wish to live in an older un-updated home...
I have lived in North Arlington Heights, central Florida, Pittsburgh, and Stamford, Ct, but in all those places, I always lived in a subdivision where the houses were roughly equivalent in value. Some of these places have the tear downs, but not to the effect I am seeing here, and I have never lived in this type of neighborhood. Because I really don't know these areas at all, desirable streets, etc., I was just trying to get a feel for what it is like, what to look for, etc. I don't really have the time to build a home right now, but thanks for the information.
The firms cited above are known for being well regarded in renovation -- not necessarily building a whole new house from scratch on a tear down lot, but more if you find an older home that needs to have the kitchen and master bath overhauled. Many folks find that homes built before the 1970s or so can really benfit from a modest (under 200 sq ft) addition to increase the functionality of kitchens, bathrooms, and family rooms. The firms cited are also very good at things like transforming older "storage space" basements into more usable living space. While not quite as dramatic as the HGTV/DIY type shows these firms do help folks that "don't want to get involved with a renovation" have one contact to supervise every aspect of these projects that are extremely popular ways to deal with a house that has the "right" number / size of bedrooms but deficient kitchen/bath/familyroom.
Airoom has a major showroom in Naperville. Bradford & Kent is on Ogden in Downers Grove. Normandy is on Ogden in Hinsdale, near the Western Springs border. LaMantia is on Ogden in Brookfield. I mention this to show where the "core" of these firms business is centered -- depending on budget and what sort of homes you find in your price range you can get a house in a very safe, extremely desirable area and contract for the updates to be done at a fixed price and on a guaranteed schedule. I know many people that have successfully lived in a temporary rental while the soup-to-nuts renovation firm brought a newly purchased older home up to date so that the family could avoid dealing with the hassles of construction. It might be an option for folks uncomfortable with the idea of an older home.
The basics of "what to look for" include being able to see past any outdated designs that the sellers may have and instead focus on homes that have well cared for neighboring homes, good access to schools / parks / rail transit, and other key "location" factors. It may take a little more creativity than simply picking a great subdivision but in the long run buying an attractively priced home the is surrounded by newer home built on tear down lots and then upgrading is a smart financial strategy.
I am wondering what it is like to live in these super nice houses that are tear downs. How do neighbors feel about that. Do blocks of streets have the same feel as living in a subdivision?
I live in the "In-town" section of Glen Ellyn, and most of the houses around me were built in the 1920s, including mine. There are also several houses from the 1950s, and a handful of new construction built on teardown lots. We have very friendly neighbors, and I don't think anyone cares about what kind of house you live in. Most of the 1920s houses have significant updates and are very much modernized. There are a few "old lady houses" that need updating, but they are often priced with that in mind.
There is a historic preservation group in town that has been fighting the teardown phenomenon a bit, but I don't think any neighbors would hold it against you if you were to live in a new house on a teardown lot. I don't personally like many of the teardowns, but we have many friends that live in themj--and I can understand the appeal. And if they want to pay more share of property taxes, I'm certainly cool with that!
Quote:
Originally Posted by gatorburgh
Any insight from the locals would be great. I've never been able to walk anywhere, so that sounds intriguing, but my husband travels a lot, so I would like to be in a safer neighborhood.
In Glen Ellyn and Downers Grove, the most prestigious neighborhoods are the ones with older houses. I don't think there's any safety advantage to living in a new subdivision. Each town has a handful of apartment buildings that are a little sketchy, but not enough to drag any particular area down outside of a half block radius. I'd say just buy the house/location that works for you, and be mindful of the school situation.
Most older homes that have survived have good bones. It is not unusual to discover natural wood trim, lath and plaster walls. or the original hardwood floors. Most will need to be updated somewhat but it is rare that this house ever needs to be gutted. The thing to remember about the old houses is lifestyle was much different then. Walk-in closets were unknown. Most of the houses in the neighborhood were built about the same time. They sell as easily as new construction. They don't lose value until they've been beat up or set empty for years.
I don't know what you are looking at, but the Craftsman Bungalow generally has larger rooms because the living area and kitchen is where family and friends were most often found. My Craftsman was over 110 years old when I sold it at a profit. The design is much different as it is an open floor plan that a Victorian home.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gatorburgh
As background, my family is relocating to the Downers Grove area. We are looking for homes in DG, Wheaton, Glen Ellyn, and North Naperville. We have three elementary age children. As many have commented, inventory on good houses in subdivisions (meaning updated kitchens, good lots), is extremely low and the houses go quick. I am trying to expand our search without adding a major commute.
I have always lived in the suburbs in an established subdivision, so this is just what I know. I have no judgement, just no knowledge either. I am wondering what it is like to live in these super nice houses that are tear downs. How do neighbors feel about that. Do blocks of streets have the same feel as living in a subdivision?
This is our fourth re-lo, and this one is proving the most difficult to find a house we want. Three houses that looked the best were gone within two days....we weren't even able to get to see them yet. I don't want to pigeon hole us into subdivision living, but I just don't know what it's like to live in a tear down, and I'm not sure we've got the time to do a major rehab on a house that needs a lot of updates (and judge away, but this is my fifth house, so I'm kinda done with the whole fixer upper thing!)
Any insight from the locals would be great. I've never been able to walk anywhere, so that sounds intriguing, but my husband travels a lot, so I would like to be in a safer neighborhood.
There are not a whole lot of bungalows, craftsmen or otherwise, that have not been snapped up in towns like Downers Grove, Glen Ellyn or any other desirable spots in eastern DuPage Co / western Cook Co. Ditto for Victorians.
Much more likely to encounter a post WWII split level or ranch. Most of these are not loaded with any special details / charm. A lot are rather basic, even as the area has improved. Many older folks never got on the whole update/remodel/improve bandwagon. Frankly these homes do not have particularly enchanting "bones" -- the "pluses" are mostly 'LOCATION, LOCATION, LOCATION'!
The range of "solutions" that the better renovation firms will suggest tend to include making the house more functional in its "public" spaces -- that often means a modern family sized kitchen that incorporates "eat in" features that were NOT common prior to the "Brady Bunch era", a "family room" that offers room for kids from toddler age through high schools to enjoy common activiities and store things like Lego set or video games. Often the "private side" updates mean a master bath that makes it easy for a family with two wage earners to get ready for work simulataneosuly AND retreat from the often chaotic pace of kid's extra curriculars at the end of the day. Of course changing these things AND making updates to the often plain / overly utilitarian look of the facade of these homes often does butt-up against the reality that tearing down and starting new MAY be more cost effective...
I think LK has been through this sort of "drill" most recently and the "break even" point varies quite a bit -- if you find a home that is maybe $350K in say Hinsdale but with with another $300K-$400K of renovation (the aforementioned kitchen/masterbath/familyroom) might realistically compare to homes selling for $900K that is a pretty fair total investment. In Downers Grove or even Glen Ellyn the equation could be rather different... The "math" of various options for renovation vs total new construction on an existing lot is really driven by factors that speak to each families "committment" to an area. There are some folks that have spent literally over a million dollars in pretty much EVERY town along the BNSF from Riverside through Naperville/Aurora or UP-W line in town like Oak Park/River Forest, and then Elmhurst through Geneva -- if they are happy with their commute and the total situation with their kids friends / sports / schools the actual "financial" aspect is secondary. Of course moving into the area from out of state (and if it is likely that there are more relocations to come...) one ought to try very hard to get the most "bang for your buck" / position oneself for greatest liklihood or return on investment -- that is when my advice (and that of others...) is often to spend so that YOUR BUDGET represents the least expensive home in the most expensive town, a relatively low risk variation of "buy low / sell high"....
...one ought to try very hard to get the most "bang for your buck" / position oneself for greatest liklihood or return on investment -- that is when my advice (and that of others...) is often to spend so that YOUR BUDGET represents the least expensive home in the most expensive town, a relatively low risk variation of "buy low / sell high"....
I agree with Chet that this is a good investment strategy, even though it's not the course we took when buying our home (we had just spent a lot of time and money upgrading our condo in the city, and wanted something a bit more "finished"). Obviously this doesn't work for everyone. If you are in a neighborhood of 2500 square foot houses, the discounted 1000 square foot house may not work for you no matter how much you invest in it.
I'd argue that the equation is a bit more straightforward in a town like Hinsdale where just owning a piece of land, regardless of the structure, automatically commands a high value. We struggled a bit with how to price Glen Ellyn, which has very high highs, but also some more affordable property. Within a block of my house there is a 1200 square foot ranch house with a one-car garage that was recently listed for $350,000, and there is a new-construction "tear down" that sold in the depth of the recession for $900,000. Yet when we looked at comparables with similar features to our house, the pricing was amazingly consistent.
OMG, those prices are frightening! However, there is something to be said for consistency in pricing. The 3/2 has been the most popular family home for a long time. Depending upon where you live, and age/size of property, you'll find a comparable price from among 'burbs, city to city, and even state to state in most areas of the same general size and quality. It's a ggod thing.
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Originally Posted by Lookout Kid
I agree with Chet that this is a good investment strategy, even though it's not the course we took when buying our home (we had just spent a lot of time and money upgrading our condo in the city, and wanted something a bit more "finished"). Obviously this doesn't work for everyone. If you are in a neighborhood of 2500 square foot houses, the discounted 1000 square foot house may not work for you no matter how much you invest in it.
I'd argue that the equation is a bit more straightforward in a town like Hinsdale where just owning a piece of land, regardless of the structure, automatically commands a high value. We struggled a bit with how to price Glen Ellyn, which has very high highs, but also some more affordable property. Within a block of my house there is a 1200 square foot ranch house with a one-car garage that was recently listed for $350,000, and there is a new-construction "tear down" that sold in the depth of the recession for $900,000. Yet when we looked at comparables with similar features to our house, the pricing was amazingly consistent.
Location is a huge factor in pricing and one of the biggest factors that drives the location price differential is school quality -- near Downers Grove toens like Lisle, Lombard, and Westmont have schools that are not as well regarded and towns like Hinsdale/Clarendon Hills are more costly due to better rated schools.
The same sort of thing is also a huge driver even inside Chicago where a handful of neighborhoods are served by schools perceived to be less like tha majority of awful CPS facilities.
Even within towns that have a generally positive aura around their schools the variation in home price is often quite large -- in places like Downers Grove one can purchase a nice home in the southern portion of town for significantly less than the same size home closer to the core -- school quality / acess to train are the biggest factor. In other towns the safety gradient is a bigger factor -- homes on the east end of a town like Oak Park are far less costly than those near the western border...
Determining a fair price is rather tricky in many towns.
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Owning an older house
